Welcome to a new episode of Punk Rock HR! Today, I’m joined by Kristy McCann Flynn, CEO and co-founder of GoCoach. This talent development platform meets employees and workers right where they are with personalized coaching and blended learning. Their goal is to upskill anyone.
While that may sound like a bunch of buzzwords, Kristy is the opposite of buzzwords, and you’ll love her insight. Like me, Kristy is a former HR leader who tells it like it is. In this episode, she shares her career journey, the exact moment she decided enough is enough in HR and why she felt compelled to go on an entrepreneurial journey to fix work at a higher level.
Kristy was an HR executive for over 20 years and worked with various companies until she had enough of how employees were treated. “Never thought I’d be an entrepreneur, but I was really frustrated by the way that we are treating people and continuing to throw people out and not providing them the skills that they needed to do better in their job,” she says.
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
The Origin Story
In the first 10 years of her career, Kristy described her experience working in human resources as “truly inspiring.” She was able to work with great leaders and managers that continued to build and invest in her career. However, like many people in HR, things started to go off the rails after that first decade.
She soon began to see a change in mentality at companies, where she was starting to be seen as a problem instead of an asset to many executives. Kristy couldn’t understand why she was now seen as an enemy when she was doing her job by standing up for the basic human values that everyone has. She revealed that she got fired twice, all because she was trying to protect fundamental human rights at the company.
Kristy realized that we as a society were allowing these types of negative behavior as a society, becoming complacent and complicit in these actions. “I thought what I was doing [in HR] was worthless, and I needed to fix this at a much higher level,” she shares. This is how her company came to be. Kristy didn’t envision herself being an entrepreneur, but she just couldn’t take the negative treatment anymore. “I built the company with the intention to give everybody the continuous education that they need to do really well in their job.”
However, what truly set her off was when she was harassed by someone she had worked with. This incident solidified that there was something wrong with work. At the time, she wanted to do more than step back from that individual, but the entire event set her on the path to learning what she needed to do to create a company that helps people, especially with skilling. “If that hadn’t happened, I probably might still be in HR, and I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing right now, which is unlocking my potential, too,” she shares. “So I firmly believe in the silver linings, and you just got to take them for what they give you and always try to be able to find a positive.”
How GoCoach Helps
When it came to what she wanted GoCoach to be and applying her years of experience, Kristy went back to the managers and leaders she worked for and wanted to ignite the same drive, respect and integrity they did for her.
During her time working in HR, the most significant things she worked on were learning, change management and digital transformations. She was able to build organic coaching and training programs that helped to accelerate company growth. She remembered how she felt doing this work, how rewarding it was, and realized that she could do it at a higher level. Kristy wanted to create a learning and development platform where both buyers and learners got the information they needed to work better.
“Essentially, what I did with GoCoach was just make ongoing skill development accessible and affordable for everybody,” she shares. “And so we work with companies essentially to provide upskilling for employees where we meet them where they are at, we understand going in what are some of the areas of development, the gap areas, the unknowns. And we take that data, and it begins to match them with coaches and with content to really have this personalized plan for self-development and then get to the change behaviors that they’re looking for, which is outcomes.”
Staying Personal Through Change
COVID-19 has forced many people to change from career to personal habits. And most of the time, as humans, we are terrible at change. Even without the pandemic, this was evident, but through GoCoach, people have been able to find comfort in being met where they are right now instead of a one-size-fits-all approach.
Change is scary, but it’s a necessary element in a career and life. “Nine out of 10 times, people don’t know where to start. You say learning and development, and they’ll say, ‘Yeah, I definitely need some, but I have no idea where to start,’” Kristy says. “And so we make it easy, as they’re navigating their learning, that they can navigate different things based on the data that they should be tuning into, whether it be change management or communication or collaboration or servant leadership and empathy.”
When utilizing other platforms, it can be hard to figure out exactly where to start and how it relates to what they want to learn. By contrast, the GoCoach platform helps to guide users through their learning journey. “We make it self-guided; there is an AI component, but that’s not the secret sauce. The secret sauce is that we’re building that self-guided journey with people, with them opting in and with understanding those data patterns and so that they know where to start,” Kristy says.
[bctt tweet=”‘I thought what I was doing (in HR) was worthless and I needed to fix this at a much higher level.’ — Kristy McCann Flynn. Learn more about how Kristy is fixing work on #PunkRockHR!” via=”no”]
People in This Episode
- Kristy McCann Flynn: LinkedIn, GoCoach LinkedIn, GoCoach website
Full Transcript
Laurie Ruettimann:
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Hey everybody, I’m Laurie Ruettimann welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guest today is Kristy McCann Flynn, she’s the CEO and co-founder of GoCoach. GoCoach is a talent development platform, and it meets employees and workers right where they are right now with personalized coaching and blended learning.
And the goal is to upskill anyone. Now I know that sounds like a lot of buzzwords, but you’re going to love Kristy because she is the opposite of buzzwords. She’s a former human resources leader who tells it like it is. And in this conversation, you’re going to hear her career journey, the exact moment she decided enough is enough in human resources and why she felt compelled to go on an entrepreneurial journey to fix work at a higher level. I know you’re going to love this conversation with Kristy McCann Flynn. I feel like she is my soul sister. And so sit back and enjoy this episode of Punk Rock HR.
Hey Kristy, welcome to the podcast.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Hey, thank you so much. I’m thrilled to be here.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, Kristy, it’s a tradition on Punk Rock HR to have the guests tell us who they are and what they’re all about. So are you up for the challenge?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah, absolutely. So just a little bit about me. I’m a former HR executive for over 20 years. I worked in a lot of big companies, small companies, middle companies, and I basically had this, I guess, good midlife crisis. And then basically created my own company. Never thought I’d be an entrepreneur, but I was really frustrated by the way that we are treating people and continuing to throw people out and not providing them the skills that they needed to do better in their job. So about three years ago, I took my husband over to Central Park and told him that I was draining the retirement funds and going to create an education company to help people with skilling. And that’s pretty much me in a nutshell.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, there’s so much to unpack there. So first and foremost, you were working in the world of human resources. Tell us what that was like.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
I went into HR, I fell backwards into it. I was actually supposed to go on to medical school. That’s part of this program between St. Joseph University and Thomas Jefferson. And I had a friend pass away, and then it was eye-opening to me that if I couldn’t fix it, I didn’t want anything to do with it. So seeing that that was going to be near impossible in the medical field, I just started working at what was SBC, that was acquired by Comcast. And I ended up in the human resource department and I was still in school — I think maybe my junior or senior year, because that’s when I decided that I wasn’t going to go to Thomas Jefferson. And I thought it was awesome, because we’re going through a major acquisition with Comcast coming in. You saw that the company grow and pivoting and going different ways.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
And I’m all new to this, just some college kid, not really understanding how I’m supposed to apply college to the workforce, never mind what I’m doing at Comcast working part-time. And I just continued to push into it and worked at a lot of different companies. And I want to say my first 10 years was really truly inspiring. I think it’s because I worked with really great leaders. I worked with great managers who continue to build and invest in me, companies like Fidelity and Pearson Education. They put so much investment behind me that they helped me be successful, and I really valued it.
Laurie Ruettimann:
So Kristy, you started out by saying that you worked in human resources. Tell us what that was like. What was that all about?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
I want to say my first 10 years were amazing. I worked with phenomenal leaders for really good companies that put a lot of investment in me and my potential. And then, so I learned a lot from the best, and not only did it get me confidence, but it gave me the ability to do a lot of different things that I wouldn’t have felt comfortable doing. You don’t know what you don’t know. And now when you have companies investing in you, that care about you, it makes it that much easier.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well it’s interesting how you break down your career by the first 10 years. Because I think a lot of us have a good first 10 years in human resources and then the rails go off. So what was your experience?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah. The rails, the sanity, everything went off. So it was going into year 11. It was right after the housing crash, you know what I mean, things really started to change and companies start to change. And this stupid tech bro mentality really started to penetrate everywhere. And I was just like, what is this? And not only that, I felt I was having conversations with, were supposed to be executive leaders on basic common sense, that were somehow pointing the finger at me that “No, it’s you, you’re the problem.” And I’m like, “Oh, OK. So it’s totally normal that a CEO jumps on top of his desk and raps a song about girls underwear. That’s totally normal. Right?”
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah. I think that’s like a normal Tuesday. Definitely.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah. Normal Tuesday. And I went nuts. I just couldn’t believe it. Because these are basic human values, and I continued to see companies and leaders and managers just think that they can do anything and get away with everything. I mean, everybody talks about Travis Kalanick and now the Better.com guy. There’s tons and tons of those individuals out there.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Wait, we let them, we in human resources, or we in society?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Society. The good HR people are always the ones that got fired. I got fired twice just trying to protect basic human rights? And so don’t get in HR if you’re not willing to take some risk and stand up for the right thing. But no, we allowed it, and we became complacent and we became complicit, and I just thought my job was absolutely worthless. I thought what I was doing was worthless. And I needed to fix this at a much higher level, and I built the company — because I never envisioned myself being an entrepreneur at all. I mean, I still laugh at the fact that I’m doing this. I’m happy I’m doing it and we’re helping a lot of people, but this was not something I envisioned. But I couldn’t take it anymore.
And I had to bring worth back to me and the values and bring that investment of education that I just grew up with and was a heartbeat of everything that I had become through the help of others. And so that was a good nervous breakdown, midlife crisis, whatever you want to call it, but enough was enough. And I built the company with the intention to give everybody the continuous education that they need to do really well in their job. And to educate the asshole out at the same time, because that’s what happens when you’re that complacent and complicit. People will continue to push those buttons and continue to go deeper and further. And then next thing you know, it’s on the news, and it’s like, how did we get here? Like, it’s been going on for years.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, that’s really well said. And before we talk about the work that you’re doing today, I’m just struck by how many really talented women. And I’m going to say women, although it’s men, who worked in human resources throughout my career, who just said enough is enough and walked out. You’re right, we need to fix things at a much higher level. But what does it say about where we are as a society that women are put into this position in human resources, but underfunded, undervalued, working at an intersection of toxicity, of hyper-masculinity of homophobia. What’s wrong with work that really talented HR women have to leave?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
I think a lot of things are wrong. I could tell you the episode that really set me off and the things that I thought about. So, I like to run a lot and I was really stressed out on a trip that I had to make and went for a run and ended up blowing my Achilles’. And so for me not to be able to run and be in a cast for close to four months was pretty painful. Not only just on my mental health, but just in general. I need to exercise the anxiety out. And I was working in a pretty tough position. And so the individual that I was working for, who I disputed working for to begin with, so I didn’t want to work with this individual. They’re like, “No we’re promoting you. You’re going to be the head of HR for this brand-new division.”
The guy is an asshole, you know what I mean? I was like, I’m not working with him, but he stared at my chest the entire time during the interview. That’s not normal. So long story short, I moved my Achilles’ and he was being nice and wanted to take me out to lunch and that’s — I’ve been sexually harassed before, but this was the one that really got me the most. Because I hate to say it, it wasn’t even sexual harassment. He was just doing these things to dominate me. And not only that, when he was putting his hand in between my legs. In my mind, I’m like, I have one leg, are you serious right now? You’re sexually harassing with one leg, really? And I remember looking at the crutch, and I just wanted to take the crutch and like, just whale him with it.
But I kept on thinking in my head, if I do that, then I’m going to be on the news and I’m going to be the crazy HR person. And I can’t do that. And so I was able, you know what I mean, to take a step back, but that also helped start the path for what I need to do to create a company that helps people, especially with skilling.
And should I have had to do that? No. Did I really respect and love that company up until that promotion working with that individual? Yes. But I firmly believe that and maybe it’s just the way I grew up, that things are always going to be tougher for us, but at the same time they’re going to be more rewarding. Because if that hadn’t happened, I probably might still be in HR and I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing right now, which is unlocking my potential, too. So I firmly believe in the silver linings, and you just got to take them for what they give you and always try to be able to find a positive. And the good news is that I’m not on Rikers. I mean, I would have been in Rikers Island after knocking him out with my crutch, and I started at my own company.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love it that you’re unlocking your own potential as an entrepreneur. And you’ve said repeatedly that your path was not entrepreneurship, but how many of us really know our paths, right? I mean, we’re mostly clueless and we learn a little bit here, learn a little bit there through continuous learning, and suddenly we’re on a career path that is both surprising and rewarding. So I love that you’re living your values. Tell us a little bit more about what you’re doing and where you went with all of that crazy energy with that HR career.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah, well, I was trying to think of a great way to be able to apply my 20 years in HR. And I went back to the managers and the leaders I work for, and what they ignited in me and I wanted to be that. And I knew that I could do that by helping people. So in HR, the big things that I always worked on was learning and development, change management, digital transformations, whatnot — any type of M&A. That was my wheelhouse. And so, especially within the L&D, I took this company, I want to say halfway through my career, that was really going down the tubes with performance and retention and culture. And I built these organic coaching and training programs, and it really helped accelerate the company.
And I remembered every single day how I felt doing that and how rewarding it was. And so I’m like, I could do this at a much higher level, how can I create a platform that’s easy to use? That the buyers get everything they need out of it, that the learners get everything they need out of it. And they actually use it and apply it to work.
So that’s essentially what I did with Go Coach — was just make ongoing skill development accessible and affordable for everybody. And so we work with companies essentially to provide upskilling for employees where we meet them where they’re at. We understand going in: what are some of the areas of development, the gap areas, the unknowns? And we take that data, and it begins to match them with coaches and with content to really have this personalized plan for self-development and then get to the change behaviors that they’re looking for, which is outcomes, that they’re doing this in the workforce.
And so that was me bringing this at scale and making it super-easy. Because I remember in HR, when I was putting together these programs and I was creating this content and I was bringing in these coaches, it was a lot of work. So how can I streamline this, make it easy, for people out there and, most importantly, make sure people are using it. Because traditional L&D platforms, you end up buying it, but nobody uses it. That’s how they make money is by people not using the platform. Wouldn’t it be an amazing concept that I made money off of people actually learning and using my platform? And so that’s the way that we look at it.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love it. It’s a different take on the world of L&D. I wonder how COVID has really impacted your organization, your growth and your delivery to your customers. I mean, you are a platform. So in some ways, you’re on top of technology, but I would imagine that the learner is changing in real time. So that’s got to propose some challenges for you, I would imagine.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
I would say, I wouldn’t call it challenges. It’s opportunities, because you don’t know what you don’t know and everything has changed. And guess what, we as human beings are absolutely terrible at change. It was evident way before COVID, but we were able to get away with it. And so I think because the platform is agnostic, and because it meets people where they’re at and understanding where those gaps and opportunities are — because like, nine out of 10 times, people don’t know where to start. You say learning and development and they’ll say like, “Yeah, I definitely need some, but I have no idea where to start.” And so we make it easy, as they’re navigating their learning, that they can navigate different things based on data that they should be tuning into, whether it be change management or communication or collaboration or servant leadership and empathy.
And so we make it self-guided. There is an AI component, but that’s not the secret sauce. The secret sauce is that we’re building that self-guided journey with people, with them opting in and with understanding those data patterns and so that they know where to start. And then they actually do start, because that’s why people don’t use these learning and development platforms. They’re told, “you need some communication help.” But then they go to a masterclass or even LinkedIn Learning and oh, what, you look at a 40-minute video about communication? That’s not going to do anything? It’s about like where that personalized starting point is. That’s a broad subject. What exactly are the communication breakdowns, what is happening, what are some of the issues? And it’s really being able to dive in and not just check a box.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I wonder how GoCoach can really offer that kind of personalization at scale. Can you talk a little bit about that. I mean, do you work through account managers, do you have really smart questionnaires when you get started. What’s the way someone onboards on to GoCoach to ensure that they’ve got a high rate of utilization?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
That’s a great question. And our high rate of utilization on the platform is 100%. Everybody that comes on ends up going through it. And not only that, they continue to come back, and in three and a half years we haven’t lost a client, either. We continue to expand. And so it all starts with data. Data is a path for everything. So every coachee that comes on board, they really start to go through an assessment. And that assessment understands, is asking questions based on some of the areas of opportunities, some of their gaps. it’s getting into just overall health and wellness. It’s getting into where they feel they’re stuffed, they’re stressed, et cetera. And those data output starts to make recommendations for coaches and content to have a starting point. And based on that, then they’re able to opt in and be like, “Yeah, this is applicable to me. This is relative, It’s what I was looking for.”
And then they start to build that journey with the coach and really identify goals as to where to start and where to go through. We have data assessments that are continuing to go throughout the entire engagement where we’re getting feedback from the coach, the coachee, the manager and the stakeholders. So we’re getting qualitative and quantitative data. That’s really showing the progression, or lack thereof progression. And where people needing to pivot and turn in different ways. And then we’re getting to applying it, like those change behavior outputs, which I think is really cool. Because even just as a former L&D practitioner in HR, in my mind, I’m like if they use one nugget, that’s mission accomplished. Which, the bar is so low, it’s just ridiculous.
Laurie Ruettimann:
It is, wait, it is so low, and you also have to go, “OK, before you leave, before we wrap up, these are the three things you have to do on Monday.” I mean, you really have to drill into someone’s head. So I like that you’re using data to try to outsmart the learner and figure out how they’re best going to learn and interpret this course in their own life.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah, because it’s all about reinforcement. I have lots of different certifications, and one is a Prosci change management, and the most important thing that I learned from Prosci is that it takes people five to seven times just to hear something. Never mind actually act on it. And my ongoing joke was, for CEOs, it takes them 15 to 20 times to hear something, never mind act on it. So if that’s true, which it is, it’s one of the reasons why we’re terrible at change. Now, personalization of learning is really not just of learning, but the reinforcement and then the application. And that is much easier when you’re able to do that data tracking from the beginning and really make it goal-oriented. So there’s skin in the game, and it’s not something that they have to do, it’s something that they want to do because these are going to be the outputs and this is where they’re going to be able to go.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, we’ve mentioned your journey as an entrepreneur, and you’ve built this really impressive tech platform. You’ve built a company, an organization around it. How are you fundamentally changed in the past couple of years? I would imagine that the woman you were at the beginning of your HR career is different than the woman you are today.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah. I’m not nearly as angry. Like people will always ask me this. “Why’d you build GoCoach.” I’m like, “Well, I was angry.” So I might as well funnel the anger through the positive potential outcomes for others.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Wait, is that your why, because you were angry?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah, totally. And when I say angry, with the big A and a big Y. I was just done, you know what I mean? Because we just threw out so many people then we say, “Oh, but we have a war in talent. We have a skill shortage, Great Resignation.” Yeah. We caused this trillion-dollar problem because we just continue to recycle and replace people instead of investing in them, which could be a fraction of the cost. And so I always love when people are just like, “Yeah, this is happening.” Yeah, we did this. OK, and now the only way to undo this is through education and by investing in people. And so I think where I changed is that I was able to get out a lot of the anger, especially what was broken, and start to fix it.
Because it’s one thing to be angry and then to talk about it. And it’s another thing to be angry and do something about it. I think that I’ve changed it in a lot of ways where I got to learn more about myself and my own gaps and areas for opportunity for me, and then areas that are just absolutely terrible at. Who I am as a leader, how I’m evolving? Plus I’ve stretched myself for the first time, I mean, I was in HR for 20 years. I was pretty good at what I did. And it was also very boring because I did become a master. And so I’m stretching myself in different ways. I never thought I was a good writer. Apparently I’m a decent writer. I never thought I’d be doing sales and marketing. Currently I’m pretty good at both of those because we’ve been a scrappy bootstrap company for the last three and a half years.
We just got a bunch of investment money. But I mean, me and my co-founder pretty much built the product, wrote all the content, did the data assessment, you know what I mean? And so that’s been good. I never knew I had that in me. So if anything, it was a good midlife crisis. I got something out of it, too. I’m learning.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, it’s really interesting that you brought your husband to Central Park and told him that you were going to drain the retirement funds. I think one of the conversations that I have repeatedly in midlife is with women and men who would love to do something, but their partner is risk-averse or their partner is hesitant. So what was that like in your family and, I don’t know, how’d you bring your husband along?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah. Well I also brought a big bottle of booze with me to Central Park, figure I’d get a couple drinks in before I laid out there, but he knew it was coming. He just wanted me to be happy, and I was the breadwinner in the family. So he knew what that money meant to me. It wasn’t just about retirement. It’s about really unlocking the potential of us. If you’re going to be on anyone, I’d rather bet on me than continue to shove money into a 401K and, by the time I retire at the age of 65, the world would have passed me. It didn’t make sense. And then it was about betting on me and a question is, “do you believe that I can do it?”
And he did. And I think that he wanted to see me happy. I hadn’t been happy in a long time, and if anyone’s going to put our money to work, it’s going to be us because if we win, great, if we don’t, then it’s on us. There’s no one else to blame. And so it really helps drive that accountability.
So my husband’s a saint, I mean he makes me a better person to begin with. And so he’s been not only fully supportive along the way, but he’s been a really good balance and guiding light for me for days that are just terrible. Yes it’s awesome having your own company, but when COVID first hit in 2020 and all these deals that we had out weren’t signing, I’m like, “oh my God.” And then I made decisions where we didn’t sell for six months because there was no way I was going to sell into HR where there were so many unknowns. That’s not the purpose. And so we gave it away for six months, and a lot of people scratched their head. “You’re a bootstrap company, you’re giving a lot of stuff away.” I was just like, “I’m the former buyer, I don’t want to talk to me right now.”
Laurie Ruettimann:
I know, absolutely. Yeah. That’s a real good understanding of the marketplace and understanding exactly what the sentiment was back in early 2020. I love that approach. Well Kristy, it was really awesome getting to hear your career journey, your career arc, how you bet on you and turned that into a winning bet and a winning hand. And if people want to learn more about you or GoCoach or how they can implement GoCoach in their organization, where could they go, what’s the best way to find it?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Yeah. So our website is gocoachgo.com. We’re very active on LinkedIn. And so we always have lots of different things on there. We’re not on Facebook or Twitter and Instagram. I’m not giving those jackasses money or using that. And so we’re purely on LinkedIn. And the biggest thing is, they’ll look at it, especially if you’re a buyer, that it was built for you by you. We’re really meeting the buyers and the learners where they’re at and being able to serve both those purposes, which a lot of products and platforms I think can’t, it’s hard for them to do. And we understand the buyer perspective and the learner perspective and how to bring them together.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Amazing. And you know we have a lot of executives and human resources leaders who love to connect on LinkedIn. So do you accept LinkedIn invitations?
Kristy McCann Flynn:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Great. That’s amazing. Well, we’ll make sure to include all of that in the show notes, and Kristy, it was really fun getting to learn a little bit about you and thanks for being a guest.
Kristy McCann Flynn:
No, likewise, thank you so much. And I’m thrilled to be here, and thank you again.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey, everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by the Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions, for more information head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now that’s all for today, and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.
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