My guest today is Dr. Candace Steele Flippin. She is a communications executive, a TEDx speaker and the author of the fantastic book Get Your Career in SHAPE: A Five-Step Guide to Achieve the Success You Need, Want, and Deserve. Dr. Candace and I talk about her game-changing career framework, the generational changes in work and the three questions everybody needs to ask themselves about their career.

Dr. Candace helps Acuity Brands use technology to make the world better. She is a research fellow at Weatherhead School of Management at Case Western Reserve University, where she studies how women who are Generation X, millennials or Generation Z can get the most out of their careers while bridging the gaps between the different generations.

Many people are thinking about what’s next in their careers. If this sounds like you, this conversation can help you plan out the next steps.

Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.

Generational Changes Are in Motion

Dr. Candace noticed, as a communication leader, that there was a clash of the generations in the workplace. Every article that she saw in the media was negative, but she genuinely wanted to understand what was happening with this phenomenon, so she went back to school to learn more about it.

In her research, Dr. Candace discovered that in the year 2030, there is going to be significant generational changes in the workplace. The biggest shift is that “the youngest baby boomers would be eligible to retire.” That doesn’t mean they all will, as some people retire early and some people can’t or don’t want to retire at 65.

However, Dr. Candace shares that “since there were so many baby boomers compared to Gen X, I thought it might be an opportunity, and others thought, to accelerate career development for groups that had historically been overlooked, women in leadership, people of color.”

Baby boomers have been in positions of power for decades. But too often, baby boomers hold on to these positions for dear life instead of expanding the pool of opportunity. The model of scarcity is built in leadership in work and can be difficult to challenge. However, Dr. Candace believes that many boomers are more than willing to share in these opportunities.

“I actually believe there are a lot of really great baby boomers who are wonderful role models and mentors. I have been the beneficiary of that,” she says. Either way, 2030 will change the makeup of the workforce and create an opportunity for genuine change ⁠— or expanding on the change already occurring with boomers exiting the workforce as part of the Great Resignation.

While these changes are not fully apparent in today’s workforce, younger generations still need to start developing and preparing themselves for the opportunities.

Prepare Yourself for These Changes

The time to prepare is now, and many professionals are doing just that. And as we’ve seen in the Great Resignation, people aren’t afraid to look for opportunity in other places.

If you’re struggling to find opportunities to grow and move up, then “you have to make some tough choices about what you’re going to do with your career,” Dr. Candace shares. She suggests three questions that you should be asking yourself in that moment.

1. “Do you have the career you need?”

“Ask yourself, does the career, the role that you’re in, allow you to pay your bills, have a lifestyle that you want … give you the freedom and flexibility to do the things that are important to you?” Dr. Candace says.

2. “Do you have the career you want?”

This question takes the first question a step further. “Is this the profession that you’re doing that you went to school for? Does this profession allow you to follow your passions? Is it something that you’re curious about and you’ve wanted to explore? Does it give you that fulfillment?”

3. “Do you have the career you deserve?”

“Have you checked the boxes you were told you needed to check?” Dr. Candace asks. ”Have you spent the time to get the certification, the training, the degrees, the network, all those things that if the world were fair and equitable, you should have that career, along with the compensation and all the things that come with it.”

Getting Your Career in SHAPE

Your career takes time, intentionality, hard work and care. It doesn’t happen overnight, but Dr. Candace has written a book that will give professionals a framework to understand their path and where they need to go.

Dr. Candace explained her SHAPE framework. “It turns out that there are five things that are statistically significant that correlate to career self-efficacy, career success.” Doing these things can give you a better shot at success.

  • Strong financial foundation. “I learned from my own experience that if you don’t have a strong financial foundation, you will not take risks.”
  • Hard work. “What I’ve found in my research is that it’s not the hard work that trips women up. It’s the fact that they’re not aligned with the person evaluating their hard work.”
  • Advocate for yourself. “Speaking up. Making your opinions and your thoughts, and your strategies known. Bragging better about your work. And if that’s difficult for you, finding people to advocate for you while you’re working on coaching yourself up.”
  • Perseverance. “Mistakes are gifts. And so you have to build a great support network for yourself and fortify yourself so that you’re able to manage those flows well, and don’t go it alone.”
  • Educate. “You should practice being a lifelong learner. So you’re staying curious, you’re bringing new knowledge and skill sets to your role.”

Dr. Candace’s book can help us get our careers in shape and obtain the career we want, need and, most importantly, deserve.

[bctt tweet=”‘You should practice being a lifelong learner. So you’re staying curious, you’re bringing new knowledge and skill sets to your role.’ Tune into the latest #PunkRockHR episode with @CSteeleFlippin to learn how to get your career in shape!” via=”no”]

People in This Episode

Full Transcript

Laurie Ruettimann:

This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands, creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.

Hey everybody. I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guest today is Dr. Candace Steele Flippin. She’s a communication executive, a TEDx speaker and the author of the great book “Get Your Career in SHAPE: A Five-Step Guide to Achieve the Success You Need, Want, and Deserve.” In today’s conversation. Dr. Candace and I talk about her game-changing career framework, and we also cover the three questions everybody needs to ask themselves about their career. So if you’re like everybody else and really thinking about what’s next for yourself in 2022 and beyond, well, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Dr. Candace Steele Flippin.

Hey, Dr. Candace. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to talk to you, finally.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I’m excited as well. Listen, we’re going to talk about your amazing book and your body of knowledge. But before we get started, why don’t you tell everybody who you are and what you’re all about?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

I am a communications executive, and I help Acuity Brands, which is the company I work for, use technology to make the world better. I’m also a research fellow at the Weatherhead School of Management at Case Western Reserve University, where I study how women who are Gen X or millennial or Gen Z can get the most out of their careers.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I am very much Gen X, which is why I was so excited to get you on the show. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about your research. Let’s start right there. You’re focused on women. What makes you do what you do?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

So I had actually both a personal and a professional connection. I’m a Gen X right there with you. I often say we are like the Jan Brady of the generational discussion. There are the baby boomers who get a lot of attention, millennials who get a lot of attention, and no one seems to talk about us. We’re special, too. As a communications leader, I started to notice ⁠— this was probably about 15 years ago⁠ ⁠⁠— I started to notice a clash in the workplace, and the way it happened was very interesting.

One day, one of my colleagues, who happened to be a baby boomer, came into my office. He wanted to meet with me. I thought at the time he wanted to talk about this major product launch that we were doing. Turns out he closes my door, and he’s like, “OK, I can’t take it anymore. My team is driving me crazy. They’re asking me all these questions. They’re challenging what I’m doing. They’re not doing exactly what I say.” And then, tell me more, and it turns out he was talking about millennials. Later that week, several of my mentees, who happened to be millennials, came into my office and they closed the door, like, “OK, Candace, what is happening here? How many times do I have to teach people how to do basic technology?”

They were like, “And all these face-to-face meetings …” And it was really interesting. So I was curious. And so I started researching, and everything that I saw in the media was negative, was about this clash. And so I went back to school to study the phenomenon, to understand how I could build a bridge.

Along that journey, I discovered that the year 2030 was going to be this magical year that a lot of things were going to happen. And one of them was that the youngest baby boomers would be eligible to retire. Now, we know most people don’t hit 65 and retire. Some happen before, some happen later. But the idea is that it would be retirement-eligible. And since there were so many baby boomers compared to Gen X, I thought it might be an opportunity, and others thought, to accelerate career development for groups that had historically been overlooked, women in leadership, people of color. I’m a woman, I’m black, and so I thought it would be really interesting to see what could be done to accelerate the number of women moving into these roles. And that is where my work started.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, Dr. Candace, we can’t get to 2030 fast enough. If you feel me on this, these baby boomers have been in positions of power now for decades, for a generation. And I feel, instead of expanding the pool of opportunity and really bringing people along with them, many baby boomers — and this may just be my own fragmented way of seeing leadership — have held these positions with their cold hands and have not let go. And it’s like, “Come on already. Move out of the way.” So I love that you’re focused on careers and helping women and people of color and other marginalized groups really move forward. But how can they move forward when leadership is really built on this model of scarcity? There are only so many positions available, and these baby boomers, they won’t let go.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

So a couple things. I actually believe there are a lot of really great baby boomers who are wonderful role models and mentors. I have been the beneficiary of that. So I’ll put that out there. And then, also the numbers are working in our favor. Part of the Great Resignation, lots and lots of baby boomers are retiring, so there’s room. And I often say, you could be a leader at any age. So until the role comes, you can start developing yourself to get ready.

Now, to answer your question, people who may be holding on. Well, you can keep certain roles as long as you’re still doing a good job … but more opportunities are going to start to open up. As the workforce continues to grow, as we start continuing to see these low unemployment rates, there is opportunity, and we know that workers will vote with their feet. So if they don’t see opportunity in their current circumstance, they will look for that opportunity other places, or they will create their own. They’ll start their own businesses. And with the gig economy, they’ll think differently. And then this brain trust of knowledge may not even show up in a traditional workplace. So I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to continue to grow.

And if you are in a place where you just don’t see that upward movement — I’ve been there in my past — you have to make some tough choices about what you’re going to do with your career. And I have three questions about that.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, tell us a little bit more about those three questions and where we get started with that journey.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

First question, do you have the career you need? Ask yourself, does the career, the role that you’re in, allow you to pay your bills, have a lifestyle that you want or you need to live, give you the freedom and flexibility to do the things that are important to you? Question number one, do you have the career you need?

Laurie Ruettimann:

Is having the career you need a right or a privilege?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Well, I’m an optimist, so I’m going to say it’s your right.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Yeah, yeah, I think so. But as a career coach, someone who gets a lot of inbound conversation around how unhappy people are, I’m not sure how I would answer that question myself, because I feel like so many people are locked into careers that — or maybe not the right careers for them, but they’re good at it. Right? They feel like they’re limited, and they don’t feel like they have a lot of options to move and move out of that position. Does that make sense to you?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

And that’s realistic. I say careers are journeys. You do have choice. And so that takes me to my second question: Do you have the career you want? So that takes that first question to the next level, right? Is this the profession that you’re doing that you went to school for? Does this profession allow you to follow your passions? Is it something that you’re curious about and you’ve wanted to explore? Does it give you that fulfillment?

Laurie Ruettimann:

I love that. And I love this idea that that’s possible. And I know that’s what you’ve gone to school for. That’s your body of work. That’s really what you’re passionate about. What’s question number three?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Do you have a career you deserve? Have you checked the boxes you were told you needed to check? Have you spent the time to get the certification, the training, the degrees, the network — all those things that, if the world were fair and equitable, you should have that career, along with the compensation and all the things that come with it.

Laurie Ruettimann:

A career journey is not something that happens overnight, right? And so I know you’ve written this amazing new book to help people ask and answer those questions and to give them a framework to really help them understand where they are and where they need to go. So tell us about your new book.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

So my new book is called “Get Your Career in SHAPE: A Five-Step Guide to Achieve the Success You Need, Want, and Deserve.” And the reason why I framed it that way is because I did a study — I did actually multiple studies over a number of years that include thousands of women. And as a part of that research, I was trying to understand what gets in women’s way, and there’s a body of work called self-efficacy. And self-efficacy is all about our belief that if we do something, like if we start on a task, that we’re going to be successful. And if we believe we’ll be successful, we will pursue it. But if we don’t, we won’t try.

And the way it shows up in women, and this may be something that those who are listening have experienced, someone taps you on the shoulder for a new job opportunity, and you immediately say, “Well, but …” And you start listing all the things that you can’t do. “I don’t have enough training. I haven’t been in this job long enough.” You look at the job description, you look at your resume. It’s not 100%, so you say no. That is very common among women.

Men, however, will look at the job. They see the word “the” — “Oh, I can read ‘the.’ I can be the CEO.” They’re like, right on. They have very high self-efficacy when it comes to careers. And so what I want in my research is to kind of help women get higher self-efficacy. And it turns out that there are five things that are statistically significant that correlate to career self-efficacy, career success. But if you do these things, you’ll have a better chance for career success.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I love a good acronym, and you’ve got a great one in SHAPE. So let’s talk about getting your career in SHAPE. And the first one is save. What’s that all about?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

It’s about creating a strong financial foundation. I learned from my own experience that if you don’t have a strong financial foundation, you will not take risks. And women more often than not are the primary breadwinners in their households.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Wait, is that true?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Yes. Over 50% of women in my studies and other studies show that they are the primary breadwinners in their household. And if they’re not a primary breadwinner, they are a significant or major contributor to the lifestyle that they’re enjoying. And so a lot of women will feel, because of that high financial dependence, they don’t want to take a risk by starting something new because their families are counting on them.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I understand that having a good financial framework is the launching pad for an amazing career. The next one is H. What does H stand for?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Hard work. And intuitively, we all know that you have to work hard. But what I’ve found in my research is that it’s not the hard work that trips women up. It’s the fact that they’re not aligned with the person evaluating their hard work. So sometimes they’re either not doing enough, or they’re doing too much, or they’re doing low-value work, but they never have the conversation with their manager to say, “How do you feel about my performance? How am I doing? What more should I be doing? What should I stop doing?” to make sure that you’re on the same page.

And here’s how it plays out. You’re working really hard and you don’t get tapped for the promotion, and you stay late, and you did these things, and you go to your manager and say, “I don’t understand. Why did that person get that promotion and I didn’t. I stay late. I do these things.” And they say, “Well, you are working hard, but you’re not very efficient. That person goes home at six o’clock every day. They manage their time better.” Or, “Yes, you did all those things. But you know what? I only wanted you to do one. You’re not really a good time manager.” Or they just may say, “Yes, we appreciate that, but you never really voiced it,” which takes me to the next one on the list. But it’s really about, hard work is subjective. Hard work is subjective. Be in line with the person who’s evaluating you.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I wonder if managing up becomes a difficult task when you don’t feel like you have that self-efficacy. Right? Is there just something about being a woman in our society that makes it really difficult to manage up in a corporate framework? Is anything tied that way?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

I think part of it has to be attributed to how you were coached from a career perspective, maybe how you were raised. Women are rewarded for being silent and being in the background. Women who speak up and who are assertive and stand out aren’t rewarded for that, and studies show that women unfortunately get looked down upon for that. It’s not characterized for women the same way that it’s characterized for men. But it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, and that takes us to the next letter in your acronym, which is A for advocates. So tell us more about that.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Yes. Speaking up. Making your opinions and your thoughts and your strategies known. Bragging better about your work. And if that’s difficult for you, finding people to advocate for you while you’re working on coaching yourself up. There’s a trade-off for speaking up, but I say that if you choose to silence yourself, then you don’t even get a chance to be a part of the conversation because you’ve opted your own self out.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I certainly love that. And it just reminds me of how hard it is to advocate for yourself. But your next letter, P, tells us a little bit more about that. So what does that stand for?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

That stands for perseverance, so persevere. They’re going to be highs in careers, they’re going to be lows. That’s just the way things go. And most people learn best from their mistakes. Mistakes are gifts. And so you have to build a great support network for yourself and fortify yourself so that you’re able to manage those flows well. And don’t go it alone. It also means finding healthy ways to manage your stress. It also means being open to get feedback so that you can be better, and to make yourself vulnerable to feedback so that you can put yourself in the best place to stick something out. And then finally, it means if it’s not working out, you got to leave. You can’t keep yourself in harm’s way if there’s no [inaudible 00:14:20] mobility and you can’t move. And that’s a part of perseverance, I believe, as well.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, Dr. Candace, we often write about what we know. So how do you know about perseverance?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

In my book, I talk a lot about my personal challenges in my career. People look at me in one way, and they think that it was a series of boxes that I checked to become an executive bestselling author. But no, I learned through the school of hard knocks, and some of mine had to do with things such as finding out that a co-worker who objectively had a much smaller book of business than I did, but was making 30-something percent more than I was. And first and foremost, I wasn’t angry at him because I said, “Good for him. You go get yours. Now I’m going to go get mine.”

And I went and met with the leader of that practice to have a conversation. I never brought him up. I just talked about my situation and I was very honest, and I said, “It occurs to me that my compensation does not match my contributions. And I’m sure, just like me, you get calls from recruiters every week, but I want to stay here. These are my prime earning years, and so I have to maximize my potential. So we need to talk about reevaluating my compensation.”

Now, what I don’t say in my book is what she said to me. Now, let me just set the scene here. At that time, my book of business, I think was maybe $7 million. His book of business was half a million dollars. He was making over 35% more than I was, and was complaining about how less of a salary he was making, so he wasn’t even happy.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Man. Talk about being your own advocate in the wrong way.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

So in my mind, back then in my career, that was a slam dunk for me. But here’s what she said, “Candace, I was well into my 40s before I was making the kind of money you’re making right now. And I am sure your friends don’t make anywhere near the amount of money you’re making.” And so I said to her, “Well, first, I can’t speak to how you manage your career. I can only talk to you about how I’m trying to manage mine. And among my friends, I am the least well-paid. So if you want to pay me what my friends are making” — because my friends are entrepreneurs, they’re surgeons, they’re attorneys, their business leaders — I’m like, “Seriously, if you want to pay me what they’re making, I will take that every day/ but they don’t work here. I want to talk about my compensation.” And she said, “I’ll see what I can do.” So we’re talking about perseverance. So I took her at her word, and I let her try to work it out. She did not. And so I left.

I wasn’t bitter because I to myself, “OK, I’m going to do the best I can. I’m going to give them an opportunity.” I pulled my support circle of friends together to kind of fortify me because I was optimistic and I thought that it was going to at least be matched, his salary. But it didn’t happen. And I remember when I was leaving, and I do talk about this in my book, a leader at that practice — you know how when you leave a company, something people want to meet with you? So she pulls me into her office and she says to me, “I knew you couldn’t make it here.” And I just looked at her and I said, “I am so proud of my accomplishments.” And then I listed all of them.

I had a $5 million book of business. Less than a year, I grew it to a $7 million book of business. I did this, this, this, this, this, this, this ad nauseam. And I said, “And I’m going to take everything that I did here and learned here into my next role. I’m super-proud of what I’ve done here and I hope that you are, too.” And the irony of that is I ended up being their client years later.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Such a small world. And I think about how people talk about microaggressions, but these are macroaggressions. These are just totally abhorrent behaviors. But I love an anecdote in your story where you talk about taking what you’ve learned and moving forward, right? And that’s the last letter in your acronym of SHAPE, to get your career in shape. It’s E. So tell us what E stands for.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

Educate. It’s interesting, in my research, there were a number of women who said the thing that held them most back in their career was the fact that they had a lack of education or training or certification or that degree. They strongly attributed their ability not to move forward by their decision not to pursue their education. And I would say that, in some cases, you don’t need an advanced degree to move. In some cases, you absolutely do. But in all cases, you should practice being a lifelong learner. So you’re staying curious, you’re bringing new knowledge and skill sets to your role.

Whether you’re at a company for a short time or for your entire career, be a lifelong learner, because what it sets you up for is building your self-efficacy that you can learn. So if something comes up and you’re thinking about your resume and that job description, you may say, “Well, you know what? It’s 50/50 or 70/30, but you know what? I’m a good learner. I can pick that up. I have a track record of learning new things. I’m curious. I got this.” And so that’s why I highly recommend that women become lifelong learners and commit to that.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, we’re going to get our career in shape, right? That’s our 2022 goal. We’re all going to pick up copies of your book. I guess my question is, “And then what?” We get our careers in shape. What does that look like for women, for people of color? How are we living? How is life different?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

You’ll be able to clearly answer the three questions. Do you have the career you need? You have a strong financial foundation. You know how to get aligned with the person evaluating. You know how to use your voice when you need to and how to. You know how to tough it out. And you have a background of lifelong learning. So you should be able to say, “Hmm, right now I have the career I need” or “You know what? I’m going to go get the career I want. And if I’ve done these things, I’m going to be in a situation where I can get the career I deserve.” That’s how you know.

Laurie Ruettimann:

So Dr. Candace, I wonder what your upcoming year is like. You’ve written this amazing book. You’re out promoting it. What’s next for you?

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

I want to get over a million women to be able to answer those three questions. I want them to have simple frameworks so that they can do this for themselves. This is an amazing time in the workforce for not only mobility, but it’s also a great time in the workforce for people to position themselves to stay long term with an employer and set themselves up for success. And so that’s what I’m doing. I’m doing more studies to help women have practical tips and tools to be able to do this speaking with amazing people, like yourself, to get the word out, because I believe doable. And this is the season for us to get it done.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I’m definitely ready to enjoy the fruits of this season. So thanks again for being a guest today on Punk Rock HR.

Dr. Candace Steele Flippin:

It was great. Thank you so much.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Hey everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links, and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now, that’s all for today and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.

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