The HR Analyst Role in 2023 With Madeline Laurano and Kyle Lagunas

My guests today are Madeline Laurano and Kyle Lagunas, the brainpower behind Aptitude Research. Aptitude Research is one of the preeminent places to go in the HR technology industry to learn about what’s new, what’s next and what’s realistic with workplace technology. Madeline and Kyle have seen it all — sourcing, screening, talent intelligence, recognition and all the good stuff.

In this conversation, Madeline, Kyle and I talk about what an HR analyst does and how this job role can really help organizations in fixing work. We also talk about their predictions for work and HR in 2023.

Madeline is the founder of Aptitude Research and a principal analyst with a deep background in talent acquisition technology and employee experience. Kyle is Aptitude Research’s head of strategy and principal analyst. Together, they’re studying innovation cycles in HR tech.

I’ve known Madeline and Kyle for a long time, and I’ve enjoyed following their careers and seeing how they help vendors and individuals make the most of their HR technology.

Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to .

The HR Analyst’s Role and Responsibilities

What is an HR analyst? For Madeline, that’s someone who combines quantitative and qualitative research.

“Kyle’s a huge advocate for interviewing, really being in touch with the corporate side and making sure that we’re constantly doing these interviews,” Madeline says. “And we combine those survey results and the interviews with tons and tons of demos.” In addition, Amplitude uses that research to produce content and deliver presentations, as well as advisory services.

Amplitude is “in the middle of the ecosystem,” according to Kyle. That means they’re helping talent acquisition and HR leaders figure out the tech space and navigate the vendors. “We do a lot of advisory work on that side,” Kyle adds. “And honestly. it’s a lot of times just people calling us to say, ‘Hey, what do I do?’”

The company also works with vendors, playing a valuable role in helping them understand the space. “I think it’s really important for analysts who are worth their salt to hold the vendor landscape accountable and keep them in touch with what people actually need and what they’re actually doing,” Kyle says.

Growing the Analyst Community

HR analysts can come from all walks of life, including people in the vendor community and those making midcareer shifts. The challenge is finding them and making them aware of the opportunities.

“I’ve been on calls with different people — it could be anything from a solutions architect to someone on the sales team — and this person would be the best analyst,” Madeline says. “They’ve got great speaking skills. I know they can write; they’re super-smart. They probably see the market even better than some analysts do, but it’s making that move over to be an analyst.”

Kyle notes that it can be difficult for junior analysts to break in with the established firms. And he’s hoping Amplitude can help change that.

“Madeline and I are not here to just get rich,” Kyle says. “We want to do some really cool things. We actually care about this work and that means that we need to make sure that we’re investing not just in ourselves, but in the future of the industry.”

Predictions for 2023

It’s natural for HR analysts to tell us what to expect in the future. And so I asked Madeline and Kyle, what should HR be watching out for in the new year?

“I think it’s back to survival mode, but it’s like Survival 2.0, survival of the fittest,” Kyle says. “I think it’s a question of what have we accomplished in the last two years, and as HR organizations, and how adaptive can we be?”

“I think there’s going to be this shift from we just need to focus on efficiency and these bandaid approaches that happened during the pandemic,” Madeline says. “And we need to really focus on what quality means for our HR teams and for the technology that we’re using and for how we’re thinking about metrics and results.”

[bctt tweet=” ‘It’s really important for analysts who are worth their salt to hold the vendor landscape accountable and keep them in touch with what people actually need and what they’re actually doing.’ — @KyleLagunas, principal strategist, @AptitudeHCM. Tune in!” via=”no”]

People in This Episode

Madeline Laurano: LinkedIn, Personal Twitter, Amplitude Twitter, Aptitude Research website, Madeline’s email

Kyle Lagunas: LinkedIn, Twitter, Kyle’s email

Full Transcript

Laurie Ruettimann:

This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.

Hey everybody, I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guests today are Madeline Laurano and Kyle Lagunas. They are the brainpower at Aptitude Research. Aptitude Research is really one of the preeminent places to go in the HR technology industry to learn about what’s new, what’s next and what’s realistic when it comes to all kinds of technology — from sourcing, screening, hiring, talent intelligence, recognition, all the good stuff. Anything that you can go out and buy in the marketplace to fix work and to fix HR, Madeline and Kyle have seen.

And so, they’re on the podcast today to talk about exactly what an analyst does, what they don’t do, how analysts can really aid fixing work and, specifically, their individual predictions for the world of work and the world of HR in 2023.

I have known Madeline and Kyle for so long now — I could say this — for decades. And it’s been really interesting to see their career journeys, and we talk about that on today’s podcast. So if you’re interested in learning about the world of work and learning about analysts, but just connecting with two really great individuals, well, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Madeline Laurano and Kyle Lagunas of Aptitude Research on this week’s Punk Rock HR.

Hey Kyle. Hey Madeline. Welcome to the podcast.

Madeline Laurano:

Hi, Laurie. I’m excited to be here. Thank you.

Kyle Lagunas:

Hey, Laurie. Hi.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Hi, Kyle. I’m glad to have the Aptitude Research team on today, and we’re going to talk about all things HR tech, predictions, maybe a little celebrity gossip. I don’t know where today is going. I’m in a mood. So let’s get started by having you both tell us who you are and what you’re all about. Kyle, we’ll start with you.

Kyle Lagunas:

Hi everyone. Kyle Lagunas. I have recently joined the Aptitude Research team as the head of strategy and a principal analyst. And I have the pleasure of working with my dear friend Madeline on studying innovation cycles in HR tech.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Madeline, how about you? Who are you and what are you all about?

Madeline Laurano:

So I am Madeline Laurano. I’m excited to be here. I’m the founder of Aptitude Research, a principal analyst. I’ve been an analyst for way too many years, and I studied TA tech and employee experience. We do a lot of research, and we do a lot of advisory. So it’s been a very, very busy, crazy two years.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I would imagine. Well, before we get started, and maybe Madeline, we can start with you. Why don’t you tell everybody what the heck an analyst is and specifically what it means in the HR tech industry?

Madeline Laurano:

Analysts are very strange. I feel like there have been cycles of analysts throughout my career and what they do, and the definition feels like it expands all the time. We see all these people becoming analysts and it’s just very confusing, I think, for a lot of people to understand what analysts do. So I think it’s a great question. And I can tell you what my view is of an analyst, although I think some people would disagree. We do research, we do primary research and that includes, for us at Aptitude, survey data that we collect quantitative research, we do qualitative research.

I mean, Kyle’s a huge advocate for interviewing, really being in touch with the corporate side and making sure that we’re constantly doing these interviews. And we combine those survey results and the interviews with tons and tons of demos. So we are always demoing and briefing with different providers in the space because I feel like that’s the only way we can talk intelligently about the different providers rather than just making uninformed opinions about them. So, all of that research goes into research reports, speaking, opinions, blogs and advisory.

Laurie Ruettimann:

So Kyle, I wonder who does all of this work serve? Is there one constituency or —

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh my God, no. I really am glad you asked because I think that’s an important aspect of what the analyst role is. And also to your point, Madeline, there are different kinds. I think that the type of analyst work that we do, we sit in the middle of the ecosystem. And so, for talent acquisition, HR leaders who are trying to make sense of this wild and crazy tech ecosystem, understand the vendor landscape, who’s who, what’s what, here is what my agenda is for the next two years. How the heck am I supposed to make sense of the vendor community to help me partner and do that? We do a lot of advisory work on that side. And honestly it’s a lot of times just people calling us to say, “Hey, what do I do?”

But then on the other side, I think it’s really important for analysts who are worth their salt to hold the vendor landscape accountable and keep them in touch with what people actually need and what they’re actually doing.

And so, if either of us sees some really rampant thought leadership that’s just running wild out in the market, it’s our job to challenge it and say, “Well listen, this is very aspirational and very interesting, and we should be stimulating ourselves about what’s possible. But vendor community, you still have practitioners who are trying to solve this problem, and you’ve left them in the dark because it’s not the cool story anymore.” So we try to really make sure that we are the bridge or maybe even the mediator between those two parties, because they’re both working tirelessly on both ends. And it’s our job to help them bring them together and make sure that they’re working towards the same goals.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I like this kind of meat-and-potatoes approach. You’ve got the basics, you’re really trying to understand what practitioners need, what executive leaders need, but you’re also kind of out there being curious about what’s next. I have had this growing cynicism over the years around HR technology and the community because of the amount of money that’s invested year over year and the amount of growth in the market. But some would say the technology has not moved the needle and improved the world of work. I say this all the time, “We have not fixed work.” And a lot of people will say, “Well, technology’s not the answer.” And it’s like, “Yeah, well if it’s not, then why the hell am I spending the amount of money I’m spending?” So can you talk to me, maybe Madeline, maybe Kyle, around the tension around the growing market of HR tech and the brokenness of work.

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah. And it’s really confusing. I’m cynical about it, too, Laurie. I think that we hear a lot of marketing messages from a lot of providers, especially startups, like they’re going to come in and fix — whether it’s work or whether it’s recruitment or diversity, equity and inclusion — and this is the solution. And they’re, at the end of the day, selling something that they want people to buy. So the intention isn’t necessarily for the individual, it’s to make money from the employer. And I think that there becomes this disconnect. I think if we use diversity, equity and inclusion as an example here, there was such a big movement over the past two years for all this tech. Everyone changed their messaging, and there was all of a sudden a DE&I solution, that’s the category that they belonged in. This is the new thing.

And they knew there was a budget, they knew executives were interested in buying technology to support this, but they didn’t really solve for it. Some of them were just sourcing solutions, some of them were just wellbeing solutions, whatever it may be. And it was almost misleading. I don’t mean to be that cynical, but it really felt that way. And I think a lot of buyers on the corporate side caught onto that and said, “This doesn’t feel genuine. This feels like you’re looking at an opportunity, and it looks like you’re trying to make money off of something that’s really, really important right now.”

Laurie Ruettimann:

I’m curious about, Kyle or Madeline, whether or not that’s wrong. I mean there is a need in the marketplace, and we do live in this crazy world of late-stage capitalism. So can you fault venture capitalists or entrepreneurs for going into a marketplace and saying, “Clearly you have a need to hire more African American women or anybody from a marginalized community or to treat them better. And we think we have a program to fix that. Why not us? Why can’t we take a swing?” So I’m with you on the cynicism, but also capitalism.

Kyle Lagunas:

I was actually on the solution provider side during this renewed focus on diversity, equity and inclusion following the tragic deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and dozens of others. And it wasn’t just the vendors saying, “We are DEI now.” Instead, you saw this massive wave through the market of executives who were going out into the world and saying, “Well, we are going to be the most inclusive company in the world. We are going to hire 40% diverse people in the next year.” CEOs making these claims. And then the head of talent being like, “We are? How?” And if you were already in cycle to buy a CRM — I was the head of strategy at Beamery at the time. Suddenly every deal that was in play, they were like, “Well, what’s your DEI solution?” And I was like, “Well, what do you mean?”

We would literally get into deals where they were asking us how we solved DEI. And it’s like, “Well, we are a system for recruitment marketing and talent pipelining. Depending on what your strategy and practices are, we can facilitate that in a more effective way, but we’re not a skeleton key.” We take this really seriously. We’re not just going to wave a magic wand and say we’re DEI now.

So it actually shows why it’s important to have analysts in the market who are neutral and can analyze the trend of DEI from both sides and say, “Hey buyer, this is how you should be engaging vendors if you want to solve problems around DEI,” and “Hey vendor, this is the pressure that your clients are up against. You need to make sure that what you’re bringing to them is real and can prove value.” So it’s trying to just help create clarity for both parties at the same time.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, that’s really interesting, because whether or not we’re talking about DEI or wellness or burnout or give me a topic, analysts serve a purpose and have a role, but you brought up a really important point around neutrality. But how do you know if the information you’re getting from an analyst is truly neutral and best in class?

Madeline Laurano:

It’s hard, because analysts make their money from solution providers, as well as they make their money from the practitioner and the corporate side. So it’s a very fair question. It’s an important question. And I think it’s looking at the methodology around the research. How is the research being done? We don’t publish reports that are — if we’ll use Beamery as an example, because Kyle did work there — we’re not going to write a report about how Beamery is the best thing to ever happen in the world. We’re going to do research on CRM or recruitment marketing or skills and look at how that’s impacting companies and how they’re investing in technology. And that’s an important differentiator. There’s some analysts out there that will write and get paid to write, “This is the No. 1 solution,” when that’s not necessarily informing anyone. That’s just a different business model.

So I think the methodology’s an important one. And then I think, this is just my opinion, but I do think it takes some experience. I’ve made a lot of mistakes. I’ve been doing this for 18 years. That’s a long, long time to be an analyst. Most people don’t last that long, and I’ve made a lot of mistakes. I have not been neutral when I should have, I have favored some vendors because I like them or I had friends there, and I’ve learned from those mistakes. And I feel like I’m in a really good place now where I can see the market a little bit more objectively. And I have my own business. So that’s helpful, as well. But I think that the experience, along with that methodology, helps, too. You want somebody that’s been around the block.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Yeah, agree, agree. I was thinking when you mentioned that you had some experience, Kyle, I know you’re not the young whipper-snapper that you used to be, but you’re one of the younger analysts that we have in the marketplace. And people often ask me like, “Who’s new? Who’s next?” And I don’t want to say Kyle Lagunas, because you’re 37 years old, dude. So I wonder who’s new, who’s next? Where are the young analysts coming up? Or are they part of bigger analyst firms right now and haven’t broken out on their own? I don’t know. Kyle, what do you think?

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, Madeline’s perspective is as good as mine here. I actually think we agree. We haven’t seen a lot of fresh talent coming into the role. I mean it’s complicated. Part of it is the traditional paths are through the established firms, your IDCs, Gartners and Forresters. They’re not hiring — well, except for Gartner. They got a gigantic analyst team — but the others don’t really have giant investments in HCM research. Their teams are relatively lean. And there’s also, the way that the role is structured, the more tenure you have, the larger your portfolio of business, the more you’re making. You’re not going to hire a bunch of junior analysts. You’re going to sit pretty on top of your dragon hoard. And that’s where, I mean, on the Gartner side, conversely, they invest heavily in these services. It is an absolute grind. It is really, really brutal. And so, I think that people who might be open or interested, they just have trouble finding the on-ramp.

I think one of the things, I hope I’m not speaking out of turn, Madeline, but one of the things that we’re thinking about as we’re looking to the future for Aptitude is how do we actually cultivate some of this talent? Madeline and I are not here to just get rich. We want to do some really cool things. We actually care about this work, and that means that we need to make sure that we’re investing not just in ourselves, but in the future of the industry. We have to find those new voices like people who know what to do with TikTok.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I mean are those individuals, though, interested in doing the kind of work that you’re doing? Because for me, I see a direct line between creativity, writing, being a speaker, really leaning into some of those creative skills in the work that you do. But if you were to talk to a 22-year-old who’s bright and recently out of college and say, “Well, let me talk to you about the world of HR tech,” they’re going to go “Stop. I have no interest in this.” Right? So Madeline, when you think about the growth of your organization or just the growth of the analyst community in general, is it an issue of branding? Is it an issue of awareness? It seems like a good old-fashioned marketing challenge that we’re having here.

Madeline Laurano:

I think so, and I think we need new voices. I think we need fresh voices to be analysts and to be kind of giving their opinions. The interesting thing, there’s a lot of people that work at vendors that would be amazing analysts. I’ve been on calls with different — it could be anything from a solutions architect to someone on the sales team — and this person would be the best analyst. They’ve got great speaking skills. I know they can write, they’re super-smart. They probably see the market even better than some analysts do, but it’s making that move over to be an analyst. So I don’t think it necessarily needs to come from people right out of college. I actually think there’s a lot of people that could transition from —and it’s mostly the vendor side. A lot of people could transition from the vendor side and be a fantastic analyst. It’s just if they want that opportunity, it’s a really weird skillset.

I mean, you have to shift gears quite a bit. Like you go from writing, and you have to figure out when you can write the best. And Laurie, you write, too, so you understand this better than anyone. And you have to then speak publicly. You have to take a briefing, you have to sell, you have to do all these things. And the shifting of gears isn’t for everyone. To me, I see more potential in people transitioning into the analyst role, but there’s an organization, it’s IIAR, and I forget what it stands for, but it’s the analyst association. And it gives awards at the end of the year for the best analyst. They’re usually Gartner, IDC, and then it gives awards to the best AR people that work at different vendors.

And I think they’re a phenomenal resource, and they do have a team very dedicated to what they’re doing that can actually be their resource to grow people into different analyst roles. To me, that’s where it should come from is this third-party association that understands the skills and almost pairs people up almost as a mentor system.

Laurie Ruettimann:

It’s funny that you talk about recalculating your career from a vendor to an analyst because I think that could also happen in the world of being a practitioner. If you’re a VP of human resources or an HR director and you’ve gone through implementations, you’ve seen it all, depending on your role. And I think so many people in the world of human resources actually want to write, they want to speak. They’re natural performers. They have a theater undergraduate. And it just makes sense to me for many of those individuals to make that pivot. But I’m not sure they know that job exists. I mean, I don’t know. Kyle, what do you think about that?

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s a really interesting question. I don’t have a degree, and honestly, if I hadn’t found this career path — I was underemployed for a long time. Before I got into this line of work, I was working at an optometrist office and making $12 an hour because I just had this weird skill set and oddball background. Anybody looking is like, “Who are you?”

Laurie Ruettimann:

Wait, Kyle, I would buy glasses from you in a heartbeat, man.

Madeline Laurano:

I’m ready. I would buy in.

Kyle Lagunas:

Ooh. And I have work.

Madeline Laurano:

I’m ready.

Kyle Lagunas:

I was like, “You look great in those.”

Laurie Ruettimann:

I would believe you no matter what. Absolutely.

Kyle Lagunas:

I think it’s interesting to really look at the different types of analysts that there are in this space. They’re not very reflective of the HR audience that they serve. We’re not very HR-y, and some of us have some pedigree, but the pedigree for an analyst is different. Madeline has worked at Bersin and ERE and has a prolific background in watching this space for an extremely long time. Other people, like my background as a practitioner and as a vendor for a time. We were supposed to be multifaceted, and we’re supposed to have different backgrounds. HR is pretty HR.

Madeline Laurano:

But I will say that, Kyle, you have the most diverse, perfectly well-rounded background for an analyst out of anyone. I mean there’s a lot of criticism, I’m sure, for me because I have not been a practitioner, I’ve not worked on the vendor side. This is literally what I’ve been doing since I graduated from grad school. This is all I’ve done. And I have an interesting viewpoint because it’s been a lot of years, but you bring in the analyst background, the practitioner TA leader background, and you’ve seen it all come together working at a vendor in a leadership role. So, to me, the most well-rounded.

Kyle Lagunas:

Thank you.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Kyle gets the award today for being the analyst of the year.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s an interesting idea. I value it, having that experience. But I got into this because the first article I ever wrote was a millennial’s perspective on the performance review, and it was just really cheeky. It was when millennials were starting to look at some longstanding corporate practices and be like, “Why are you wasting my time with this useless stuff?” And it was actually my experience being underemployed and barely surviving the recession and going through a horrific candidate experience for six years of people just ignoring me as a candidate. So it was that experience that actually got me started as an analyst — was looking at what was wrong with HR practices. And now I think I’ve continued to see how hard it is to solve the problems that I was encountering then.

Laurie Ruettimann:

One prevailing philosophy that I have around HR technology, and I’m so glad you brought up performance management and how terrible it is, Kyle, is that most of HR tech really is performance management. We have all these categories and subcategories, but at the end of the day, organizations are trying to figure out how to hire and retain really great people and manage out people who are terrible. And we call things by different names — succession planning or internal mobility or career pathing or employee experience. But all of the tech is really catered to the people who are terrific, the people we want to — learning and development is another example. It’s all about making sure you’re either skilled up or moved out. So first of all, what’s your reaction to that? And number two, are we overengineering some of the language around this marketplace? I don’t know. Madeline, what do you think?

Madeline Laurano:

A hundred percent. First of all, I will start by saying that Laurie, you should be an analyst because that is so smart.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I’m an analyst to emulate.

Madeline Laurano:

I want the “Everything is Performance Management” report. I want to read that white paper.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Wait, we’re going to do that together. Now I’m motivated to actually write about it rather than just bitch about it.

Madeline Laurano:

No, I think it’s spot on. And I think the fail with all of this performance management tech is communication. We do not communicate with people through technology in a way that sets the right tone or is done through vehicles where people want to and are used to communicating. I agree with that a hundred percent.

Kyle Lagunas:

The other question was, is it performance management? Do we agree with that? Laurie, of course it is. Do you know why? It’s because HR is held accountable at the end of the day for the performance and productivity of the workforce. It’s really all that they know how to try to manage for.

Laurie Ruettimann:

But the question becomes, is there anything else? And are we overengineering this employee experience and basically lying to the workforce? Because for all the talk around burnout, wellbeing, DEI, all of that for me is marketing. But when the rubber meets the road, especially in a recession, all of these organizations are going to start to hyper-focus on performance management. And I think we’re going to see a renewed interest in this segment in 2023. So I don’t know, Kyle, what do you think about that?

Kyle Lagunas:

I think I would love to not have to talk about talent intelligence. I mean, I do think that we’ve overengineered on multiple fronts. We’re still solving the same fundamental problems. We are still trying to create a better candidate experience. We are just starting to realize that more and digitized process is not a positive employee experience. It’s just the same process in a new format. So yeah, I would like to see us get to it, but I hope that we also understand the difference between managing productivity and managing performance. Because Madeline and I are in the business of performance. We have to deliver, but we don’t have to be writing 1,400 words a day and showing our clients how many words we wrote and how many interviews we did. Because it doesn’t matter. It matters that we get the product out the door.

Look, we all barely survived the last two-and-a-half years. It was the most existentially, stressful, anxiety-ridden time ever. That hasn’t gone away. That anxiety is still deeply embedded in people. People are traumatized by that. And now we’re staring down a recession. Everyone has to worry about whether they can keep their job or they’ve survived this craziness. And because companies overhired and overpromised, now they’re slashing the workforces that we rushed to build for them. HR people are already just at that edge of burnout. I’m worried about what happens next if we don’t get back to those fundamentals, if we try to reinvent the wheel all over again.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I don’t know. Madeline, what are your thoughts about that?

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah, I mean, I think that we are going to see performance become this big topic again next year and we’ll see changes with it. I mean, we know it’s broken, we’ve addressed that. So we know it just hasn’t changed. And I think that, hopefully, the lessons learned for the past two years will help influence that. But I don’t know. I’m not super-optimistic about a lot of the changes that we’re going to see with how companies manage that. I do feel like it’s an important topic, and it’s interesting that we’re talking about it because I feel like we just haven’t talked about it for a while.

It’s sort of like we said, “This is horrible. Everybody hates it, so let’s stop talking about it. We’ll talk about all these other things and we’ll get back to it.” But even the skill, everyone’s going to kill me for talking about skills, but I do love the skills conversation. And I do think that if we do have a skills-based approach to talent and we truly are investing in that, things like performance management become much better than they’ve ever been because that’s how we’re thinking about it from the perspective of seeing the person for who they are, giving them the tools they need to be successful and opening the lines of communication and transparency. And that’s what I think the goal is for a skills-based approach.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I’m super-excited to get some of your predictions for 2023. So Kyle, what’s 2023 going to be like? Anything exciting, anything interesting or anything scary? I want to hear it all.

Kyle Lagunas:

I think it’s back to survival mode, but it’s like Survival 2.0, survival of the fittest. I think it’s a question of, “What have we accomplished in the last two years, as HR organizations, and how adaptive can we be?” I think that very few organizations actually evolved over the last two years. Like I’d said before, I think we’re devolving a bit. I hope that we can see a way to stop doing the same things in different ways. I mean if we look at the DEI thing, how many people are going to look to vendors and say, “How do you recession-proof my workforce?” I’m like, “Well, that’s your job, HR leader.” And then you go out to market to find the vendors who are going to partner with you to build that future-proof workforce mechanism. They’re not going to future-proof it for you. So hopefully we get Survival 2.0 is survival of the fittest.

Laurie Ruettimann:

From your lips to God’s ears. I don’t know. Madeline, what do you think?

Madeline Laurano:

I think there’s going to be a real heavy focus on quality, and I think that’s across all things, quality of hire. When it comes to talent acquisition, I think it’s quality in the vendors that we partner with, quality partnerships. I think it’s going to be quality and the strategies that get implemented. And I think there’s going to be this shift from we just need to focus on efficiency and these Band-Aid approaches that happened during the pandemic. And we need to really focus on what quality means for our HR teams and for the technology that we’re using and for how we’re thinking about metrics and results. And maybe that’s too optimistic. I’ve been so cynical on this whole podcast. Maybe I’m taking this beautiful optimistic ending here. But I do feel like quality is how companies will thrive.

Laurie Ruettimann:

I love it. Well, let’s end it on that high note. I think that was a lovely way to end it. Madeline, Kyle, I’m so pleased that you finally, after four years, came on the podcast. It’s so delightful to host both of you. And Kyle, if people want to learn more about you as a human being, someone who’s fun and interesting, where do you want them to go? And don’t tell me LinkedIn.

Kyle Lagunas:

You know what, I always give my email address, and no one has ever sent me an email, which is why I send people to my LinkedIn. But kyle@aptituderp.com is my email address. I actually am on LinkedIn every single day, so you can find me there. But I’m not on the Facebooks and I have Twitter, but I don’t use that. Madeline’s more active on there than me.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Well, I have to tell everybody that, for the longest time, you were my only friend on Snapchat.

Kyle Lagunas:

Was I really?

Madeline Laurano:

He was the only friend — I joined for a day just to see some big thing that he was going to post, and he never posted it. And that was it. That was the end of my Snapchat days.

Laurie Ruettimann:

There you go. I mean, that’s how I felt. We were at a conference, and Kyle was like, “You got to get on Snapchat.” And I did, and I got on with him, and then I never went back. So Madeline, how about you? If people want to connect with you and see all the good things in your life. Again, I mean, everybody’s going to go to LinkedIn and we’ll include all of that in the show notes, but you want them to email you, where do they go?

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah, I’d like the email answer. I’m going to steal that from Kyle. Madeline, M-A-D-E-L-I-N-E@aptituderp.com. And this was so nice, Laurie. The last time we saw each other in person was right before the pandemic and in North Carolina. I want to go back to that place and have drinks outside.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Yes, we went to the Umstead Hotel, and both of you come down, we’ll have an Aptitude Research offsite. I love it. Let’s do that.

Madeline Laurano:

Can we do a retreat? Kyle, this place is amazing.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’ll be right there.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Yeah. Oh, it was great. Well, both of you, thanks again for being a guest today, and we’ll see you soon.

Kyle Lagunas:

Bye, Laurie.

Laurie Ruettimann:

Hey everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by the Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devin McGrath. For more information, show notes, links and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now, that’s all for today, and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.