My guest today is the founder and CEO of Mobile Health, John Halloran. Mobile Health is an organization that helps employers build healthier cultures and programs that are specific to them and guide employees along their health and well-being journeys.
In this episode, John and I discuss the world of digital health and mobile health, what digital health means to the workforce and how employers can harness artificial intelligence to create healthy workplace cultures.
John is a longtime entrepreneur and CEO, including the past 10 years with Mobile Health. He considers this company to be a passion project motivated by the loss of his parents. He founded Mobile Health to make a difference and give people a chance to live fully.
“We just said, ‘We want to help as many people as we can, see their kids graduate from college, watch them get married, or do whatever they want in their lives, meet their grandkids and be part of their lives,’” he says.
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Embracing Mobile’s Positive Potential
Mobile Health was founded only a few years after the iPhone’s debut and just as the mobile phone experience was evolving. John and his team encountered many HR teams who weren’t ready to embrace mobile’s role in employee health and wellbeing.
Since then, however, mobile devices have only become more intertwined with daily life, whether professionally or personally.
While the data collected on people through our phones sparks legitimate concerns, John also sees an opportunity for improving health care by empowering people with their own data. After all, our phones know how active we are, how much we’re sleeping and even whether we’re stressed.
“I just think there’s an enormous amount of data that is now brought out to the individual, that’s really the individual’s, and how do you allow every person to harness that and use it to inform them about living their best life?” John says.
Making Digital Health Preventative
Health care is often thought of as reactive, as a response to an event or a diagnosis, but Mobile Health is focused on using data to be preventative.
“The earlier you can get somebody to start to take action, the better off they’ll be. It’s the old adage: The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. … If you think about this, this is the ultimate early-warning system, where I’m looking at what’s happening, I’m seeing when you’re going to bed, I’m seeing when you’re shutting off your phone,” John says.
Right now, the health care system has shifted into being people-dependent, with doctors and patients having great in-person relationships. However, many people like John don’t want to talk to their doctor every time. They want a simpler process. Combine that with a shortage of primary care doctors, John says, and there’s an opportunity for change.
“I think there’s a whole generational shift here, and it was brought on by the pandemic. It’s too complicated. It can be made dramatically simpler and more cost-effective if we take advantage of the technologies. It just takes time for people to get comfortable with them,” John says.
Moving Health Care Forward
The U.S. health care system is notoriously complicated. And this is where AI might be able to help, starting with simpler uses like chatbots.
“What AI does a great job of is to say, ‘Hey, there’s an anomaly here. We don’t really know what it means, but it probably means this person needs to actually see somebody real that can actually talk to them about this.’ That’s where I think AI holds a great promise,” John shares.
But ultimately, all technology must be paired with human interaction. And that’s why Mobile Health focuses on persuasion and communication rather than scolding or mandates.
“ We want to sort of share information that says, ‘This is why people do this. It’s really good for you.’ If you’ve got a family, like me, I’m sort of the family guy. I just want to be around and watch my kid. They both have volleyball games today. I’m going to try to go to both of them. What’s better than that?” John says. “I just want to help people get ahead of these issues so that they can live a long, healthy life.”
[bctt tweet=”‘There’s an enormous amount of data that is now brought out to the individual … how do you allow every person to harness that and use it to inform them about living their best life?’ ~ John Halloran, CEO of @MobileHealthMHC. Tune in to #PunkRockHR!” via=”no”]
People in This Episode
John Halloran: LinkedIn, Mobile Health website
Full Transcript
Laurie Ruettimann:
This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Hey, everybody, I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guest today is John Halloran. He’s the founder and CEO of Mobile Health. Mobile Health is an organization that helps employers build healthier cultures and programs that are specific to them and guide employees along their individual health and wellbeing journeys. That’s what we talk about today: what digital health is, what it means to the workforce, how employers can tap in and harness the power of AI to create healthy workplace cultures and where all of this is going in the future.
So, if you’re interested in a really down-to-earth conversation with someone who is passionate about making the world healthier, improving health care here in America, well, sit back and enjoy this conversation with John Halloran on this week’s Punk Rock HR.
Hey, John, welcome to the podcast.
John Halloran:
Hey, Laurie, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to catch up with you today and learn about Mobile Health and all the good things that go with the digital health and wellness market. But before we get to all that stuff, I want to know who you are and what you’re all about. So, why don’t you tell us?
John Halloran:
Well, I would say I’m a family guy. I’ve got two teenagers and they take up an enormous amount of my life, which is wonderful. I also have a wife who’s been putting up with me for 25 years for some strange reason, thank goodness. For the last 20 years, I’ve been an entrepreneur, and my current business is Mobile Health, and we’re in the digital health and wellbeing market. I’ll be honest with you, Laurie, this business is sort of a therapy project for me, because we’ve been at it 10 years, but we started it mainly because my parents died young. I had a mom that died of cancer at 57. I had a dad that died at 72 of diabetes. We had sold another venture. I remember it just being such an empty feeling and thinking, “What can we do to actually make a difference?”
We started Mobile Health, and it was very simple. We just said, “We want to help as many people as we can, see their kids graduate from college, watch them get married, or do whatever they want in their lives, meet their grandkids and be part of their lives.” I just was always upset that my parents never knew my kids. This is my 10 years of therapy, Laurie, that’s what I’m after. I love it, we have a great team. We got 52,000 employers on the platform somehow, I don’t know how that happened. And about 5 million users, and we’ve never taken a nickel of VC or PE money. We seem to attract people that like that cause. Yeah, that’s what we’re up to.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I’m really curious, because you’ve used — and I’ve used — some phrases like, general phrases, “mobile health” and “digital health” and “wellbeing.” What do all these phrases mean? Can you help us define this market?
John Halloran:
I can tell you how I think about it, because if you think of 2012, when we were founded, we’re a B2B, we always have been in the enterprise space. We would go in and say, “Hey, we think that people are going to really spend a lot of time in their mobile devices.” The first thing the HR department would say is, “Well, we have so many people that don’t have mobile phones.” We’re like, “We don’t think that’s true.”
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah. Also what a bad way, looking backwards, that prediction was off, because everybody is using, 10 years later, their phone later.
John Halloran:
In fairness, the HR professionals are always in this position where they have to be so — they have to be inclusive. They want to innovate, but they also have to make sure that they bring everyone along. We would explain it’s Mobile Health, but yes, we have a web version and all that kind of stuff. But what’s exciting about mobile in particular, and I think this is as true today as it’s ever been — if you think of the data that our phones collect about us every day, and you look at how social media really is hurting kids’ self-esteem, and all that stuff — we in turn are very optimistic on the ability of technology to positively impact health care in the holistic sense, the U.S. health care system.
Because if you think about it, you’re walking around every single day and you are, basically — the phone knows how active you were, it knows how long you slept, it sometimes knows your pulse, it knows where you’ve been, when you wake up, when you go to sleep, it can ask you if you’re stressed. From my perspective, I just think there’s an enormous amount of data that is now brought out to the individual, that’s really the individual’s, and how do you allow every person to harness that and use it to inform them about living their best life?
Then the pandemic happened. Laurie, we’d been on this journey since 2012. The pandemic happens and, oh my goodness, I felt terrible. Either people were working from home, which was stressful enough, or not working at all, which is even more stressful. Stress up, sleep, alcohol intake, leading to more suicide, more depression. We have the ability to reach every individual where they’re living. By the way, I’m as guilty as anybody, 300 times a day. I’m just like everybody else. That’s how we’re living. But let’s use it for good. Why not? We can, why wouldn’t we?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Tell me a little bit about your solutions then and how you’re using it. Because I hear you that the phone could be a vehicle for good, and I would imagine there are a couple different ways that your platform helps individuals, employers, insurance companies really come together and affect healthy outcomes in a positive way, correct?
John Halloran:
Absolutely. At the end of the day, we know in order to affect as many people as we can that we have to make this really easy for employers and insurance companies to deploy out to their populations, for their employees and their families. If we do that, we’ll be successful and we’ll be able to reach as many people as we can. Those solutions, they’re as simple as getting your annual biometric screening and taking a health assessment and earning your money for doing that, that eight in 10 employers do.
What’s really fascinating to us is employers don’t want to stop there. They’re like, “Having somebody fill out a health assessment once a year and giving the money for it doesn’t seem like the best use of time, energy, money, whatever.” They started layering on things like collaborative challenges. One of our biggest clients is one of the big consulting firms that’s spread all around the world. In the U.S., in particular, they had all these 30-somethings during the COVID pandemic that were stuck in their apartments, in condos in Chicago and Los Angeles and San Francisco and New York climbing the walls because they were locked down.
We created a holistic wellbeing team challenge, and the winning team got to designate where they donated that year’s charitable contribution, which was super-cool. They’d got to direct a million bucks, and they got to vote on it through the platform. They got to log all their activities through the platform. Most of it was passively done through Apple Health or Google Fit or something like that. Over the course of, I think it was like six weeks, Laurie, they did 2 billion healthy activities that ranged from physical to mental health, to career to financial health, and all that content and all that was done within our platform.
Really, holistic wellbeing in the middle of a pandemic, where we’re reaching people where they are. Instead of going on TikTok or Facebook or LinkedIn, you’re doing something that actually helps you. Go figure, right? Again, we’re very optimistic about the way technology can impact an individual’s health, how it could impact the wellbeing of an employer, at an employer, and we’re very optimistic. The big, big vision is someday we really help make a broader health care system simpler for people and more affordable.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, that’s a huge vision. I think one of the downfalls of digital health is that it’s always in response to something, right? It’s in response to the pandemic. It’s in response to someone having a heart attack. It’s in response to a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. And I just wonder where your platform comes in to help a little bit with prevention. Can you talk about that?
John Halloran:
Prevention, adherence, wellbeing. You’re exactly right. The earlier you can get somebody to start to take action, the better off they’ll be. It’s the old adage: The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Really, if you think about, what could be earlier in the cycle than the data coming off the phone that you’re carrying around with you every day? If you think about this, this is the ultimate early-warning system, where I’m looking at what’s happening, I’m seeing when you’re going to bed, I’m seeing when you’re shutting off your phone. Because sleep is, number one, if you’re looking at your phone before you go to sleep, you get your synapses going crazy —
Laurie Ruettimann:
Dang, you’re doomed.
John Halloran:
— trying to fall asleep.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah.
John Halloran:
You’re doomed, right? You know what the number one tell is for depression? Is if you’re not sleeping well, insomnia. That’s the biggest marker. So can we start helping there? Then there’s physical health, there’s BMI and blood pressure and weight management and pre-diabetes identification and giving people non-stress-related pathways off there.
The thing we find interesting about the overall health care system now is it so people-dependent, which we like. There’s a big physician group that we work with, that we’ve started working with, and they talk about how great their physicians are and the great relationship the physicians have with patients. I’m like, “I totally get it. That’s fantastic.” I’m 52, and I don’t want to talk to my doctor. I don’t want to go in the waiting room. Give me the app. I would rather talk to the algorithm and then reach out and talk to the doctor when I have questions.
I think there’s a whole generational shift here, and it was brought on by the pandemic. It’s too complicated. It can be made dramatically simpler and more cost-effective if we take advantage of the technologies. It just takes time for people to get comfortable with them. I’m really optimistic that we’re heading in that direction.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I like where you’re going. I mean, you have faith in the worker as a consumer. A lot of people out there will have the counterargument and say that health care outcomes have declined as we’ve promoted this employee as consumer of health, the person who can walk into their doctor’s office and ask for a drug by name, that actually we are declining as a country in terms of the healthy outcomes that we want.
What do you think about that? Because there is some tension and some truth to that — that the more information the consumer gets, the less likely they are to do anything with it or do anything more productive. Because weight has gone up, blood pressure, deaths by despair, all of it’s up.
John Halloran:
Again, I’ve been an entrepreneur, mainly because I’m a perennial optimist. Let me give you that. Let me start there. I’m an optimist, mainly because never before in human history have we been healthier with a longer lifespan, well-fed, have there been fewer people impoverished. Now, you wouldn’t know that from watching the news. But in general, by any marker, being alive in 2022 is way better than 20 years, 40 years, 60 years, and we’re getting better.
Laurie Ruettimann:
For some, if not most of the population, but there are numbers that are trending the opposite way in terms of maternal mortality. We’ve got a crisis here in America. We’ve got a crisis around suicide at this point. Opioid addictions are up because we have opioids that are accessible and —
John Halloran:
And we never had them before. I totally agree. Again, as the eternal optimist, I do think that we will continue, maybe not in a straight line, to improve. I believe that. For a long time, we were living longer until the pandemic and then it took a hiccup, and it’ll go back up. But I do think that technology, especially. Take, for example, health equity. That’s a big issue. If you live in the wrong neighborhood, getting access —
Laurie Ruettimann:
The wrong ZIP code.
John Halloran:
The wrong ZIP code, through no fault of your own, just from where you were born, you don’t have access to the same health care. But think of what technology can do to that. If we can build in digital programs that work on your phone — everyone’s got a phone — to help you manage diabetes, manage weight, manage hypertension, manage depression, manage insomnia, know that social connection’s important, know that sunlight’s important, know that you know what you eat and how often you speak to friends and how close of relationships you are is important.
I’m a fundamental optimist that will make things better. Can we solve it overnight, Laurie? No. We’ve been at it a decade and we’re going to keep going, because I don’t know what the better answer is.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I like the idea that you’re collecting all of this data. For me, one of the things I would love to see — no employer, to my knowledge, has been brave enough — is an actual health scorecard for the employer. How does this employer rank compared to their competitors? Are their employees healthy? Do they get out more? Do they have better health outcomes? That would be great for me as a consumer of work to know that where I’m going to work truly supports a healthy lifestyle. Have you seen any employers do this? Because I would love to see it.
John Halloran:
I’ve seen them do it. Not exactly the way you’re describing it, but what they do talk about is, especially during the pandemic, the wellbeing programs, I think more around the viral adoption in the community. We have a wellbeing program, and 60% of the people signed up for it and you were able to communicate with your colleagues and build culture. They talk about, I would say, that’s not going to give you the health outcomes that you’re looking for. We know every employer that we work with, how many people, what percentage of the people got a mammogram, a colonoscopy, evidence-based screenings, how many people are getting annual wellness visits?
We actually use that in the outreach. We say, “Hey, Laurie, we know it’s time for you to do and to call an annual wellness visit. And you haven’t done it yet, and you might want to blow it off because you’re busy. But you know 60% of the people at work do that, six out of 10 of your colleagues are doing it, and they’re doing it because it’s way better to catch things early. Maybe having that relationship with your doctor will help you do that.”
So, we use those peer-based statistics to engage those consumers. We don’t want to scold them into it. That doesn’t work. We want to sort of share information that say, “This is why people do this. It’s really good for you.” If you’ve got a family, like me, I’m sort of the family guy. I just want to be around and watch my kid. They both have volleyball games today. I’m going trying to go to both of them. What’s better than that? I just want to help people get ahead of these issues, so that they can live a long, healthy life.
I always think of it like this, Laurie. 30 years ago, nobody wore seat belts. Now, everybody wears seat belts. We used to walk into a restaurant, everybody was smoking. I remember getting onto a plane, this is how old I am, and there was a smoking section on the plane where the smell of smoke was sort of embedded in the fabric, because they were fabric seats.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Dude, the whole plane was the smoking section.
John Halloran:
The whole plane, yeah, the smoking section. I won’t get into the fact that I had — my dad was fantastic, but they just didn’t know. I had four older brothers and sisters and he would drive us around, and he would light up a cigar and he’d crack the window that much. I used to think the radio made me nauseous. Then my brothers and sisters said, “It wasn’t the radio, it was the fact that Dad was smoking a cigar while he was driving his five kids around.” Back then, that’s what everybody did, right?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, absolutely. The good Gen X upbringing. These kids today don’t know what they’re missing.
John Halloran:
They need to go take a drink out of the fire hose after they’ve played outside all day. That’ll help you not get COVID. I am very bullish on Gen X. We have a bunch of them, and Gen Z that work with us, because they love the mission. They are go-getters. I got to tell you, this whole “they’re not committed and aggressive and all that,” they’re fantastic. Raytheon is one of our biggest clients. They’ve been with us. They love us. We hired a girl five years out of UNH, we hired her because I went to University of New Hampshire. She went to University of New Hampshire. We totally hit it off. They love her. There’s older people around like, “We don’t want you old fogies. We want her. Claire’s great.” We’re like, “OK, you can have Claire. That’s fantastic.”
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love that, that they’re choosing Gen Z instead of Gen X. I think that’s amazing. I wonder if there are different health trends related to the different generations. For me, I pay for a concierge doctor, because I want to make sure when I want somebody and I want to talk to somebody, they’re going to be there. In our health care system, the only way to really do that these days, to get that old-school primary health care doctor that people used to have, is to pay additional money. That’s what I do. But you brought up a point that there may be people who just want that app. Are there different health trends based on generations?
John Halloran:
Yes, and I think what you just described, which is we envision a world where if we could give it away for free, we would. We’ve never taken a dime of investment money. I think it would just be a good thing to do. But we want basically every single person to have access to what you have access to. It’s a doctor in your pocket. So, we’ve created digital care programs around obesity and high blood pressure and depression and women’s health and musculoskeletal, so that people can go to one place and get the information they need that they have that doctor.
Now, we’re using an AI bot to do that. I’m not one of the people that’ll tell you that AI is going to solve everything. It’s getting better for sure. I think it will, I think we’re just early innings and it will get really good.
Then you’ll have to ask yourself — one day, Laurie, we’ll know we’re successful if you look at Mobile Health and say, “Why don’t I just use Mobile Health? I don’t need to pay that extra.” But I pay extra, too, we use concierge medicine, because it’s too important, and I think there’s also been a lot of innovation in concierge medicine, which if we could only accelerate that innovation so more people have access to that. This is the other conversation I have with my provider friends. They may have great relationships with their patients, but now we’re suffering from a shortage of primary care physicians, it doesn’t scale. It’s really expensive to go to med school, but we do have technology that can do — not replace a doctor — but can do a lot of what physicians do and help bring the health equity differential down. Like I said, I’m optimistic.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I like it. You’ve mentioned a little bit about AI and using that in chatbots and that level of medical care. What else is cool in your industry? Where is this all heading? What’s the future of this like?
John Halloran:
I do think health care is a late adopter. A lot of the technology services that you use in other parts of the world and other parts of your day, it’s just different. We’re trying to get it up to par or up to what you expect. But, remember, the health care system is so — we’ve constructed it in such an odd way in the United States. And most people are like, because that’s all we’ve known, I go to the doctor, and the doctor sees me, and they send this claim out to this insurance company that uses a CPT code to figure out, “Did you ask them about your elbow that hurt while you’re in your annual wellness visit? Oh, well then, that applies to the deductible. Sorry.” Everyone’s like, “What are you talking about? Make this easy for me.”
I think what’s really cool about all this, and I think this is everyone’s intention, is that we’re going to make this easier on people and we’re going to make it simpler. But we in the United States just have this very complex system. So, to do that is hard, and it’s hard work. That’s what we’ve been working on. We had stars in our eyes in 2012 — “We’re going to fix the health care system,” just like everybody, and we’ve done our part. We’ve made enormous progress.
The promise of AI, Laurie, is amazing. I mean if you just think about it, if you wear an Apple Watch, for example, and we know how long you slept, how active you are, what your pulse is. Maybe you respond to a questionnaire once or twice a month. How’s your stress doing? And you step on a scale and that’s connected to Bluetooth. Think about what happens at the average physician’s office visit. If you go to a wellness visit with your doctor. They put you on the scale, they put the blood pressure cuff on, they ask you how you’re doing. That’s the visit.
We now can do that every day of the year for 365 days. I don’t think you need to, but we could do it a couple times a week or once a week. People like to make AI sound so spooky smart. It’s linear algebra. We just look at reversions to the mean, and we see when things look like they’re getting out of whack, what AI does a great job of is to say, “Hey, there’s an anomaly here. We don’t really know what it means, but it probably means this person needs to actually see somebody real that can actually talk to them about this.”
That’s where I think AI holds a great promise. If you ask me, I think every single person on the planet should have an Apple Watch or a Google Fit watch, and they should be monitoring this stuff passively. Nobody has to go fill anything out. It should just work. Then it should tell you, ping, “Hey, we’ve noticed something. We’re not trying to scare you, but we’re noticing that the blood pressure’s up, the sleep’s down, the weight’s starting to go up. We should figure out what’s going on here.” That to me is really cool, because then you’re managing it through a lifetime. That’s the path we’re on.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I envision a day where we can start to correlate this with some office cultures, trends in industries, you can figure out if you have a group of employees who are all not sleeping well, maybe it’s not the employees, maybe it’s the boss. I think there are a lot of cool ways that this information could be used to really understand performance management, but also, just in general, human behavior, human psychology, and really be used to fix work.
John Halloran:
Can I reorder your words slightly?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Please.
John Halloran:
Because I think you’re totally on to it. How about human performance management? How does that grab you?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, we all are athletes. I really believe that. Yeah.
John Halloran:
We are, in our own way. Again, think back to the original mission. We want you to be around to see your kids grow up and meet their kids and be around for as much of as you can, and be around for it in the best shape you can be, so you’re enjoying it. By the way, this is what the kids understand these days that we didn’t. We’re skiers, so we drive up to the mountains and sometimes we’ll be in the middle of nowhere and everyone’s hungry and there’s literally only a McDonald’s. There’s nothing. It’s in Lone Pine, California. Check me on this if you want.
We’re like, “Hey, we got to stop at…” And my kids are like, “Why are you poisoning us, dad? We thought you loved us.” I’m like, “Really? When I was a kid, and McDonald’s was a big treat, you’d get your Happy Meal and your McNuggets.” “Do you know what they put in those things?” And I’m like, “No, all right, we’ll find a Subway.” It’s one of those classic things.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I’m not a fast food snob. There’s no hierarchy. If there are McDonald’s fries around —
John Halloran:
Oh, they’re so good.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, yeah, it’s not going to kill you. Come on. The fries are not going to kill you once.
John Halloran:
The fries are the best. I would say Wendy’s though, it is a plug, they’re a client, they have fantastic fries. And In-N-Out is not a client, but if you come to the West Coast, if you’re ever out here, make sure you get In-N-Out. If you’re around, call me, I’ll meet you at In-N-Out. It’s the greatest burger and fries experiment on the planet.
Laurie Ruettimann:
There’s nothing wrong with In-N-Out fries.
John Halloran:
It’s the best.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I’ll 100% agree with that. Well, listen, it’s always fun to talk about health, wellbeing, digital health, all of it, and also french fries. If people want to learn more about who you are, who you serve, all your products and solutions, or just want to have a conversation with you about the future of Mobile Health, where do they go?
John Halloran:
Sure. www.mobilehealthconsumer.com. We’re also on LinkedIn, we’re on Facebook, we’re on Instagram. We’re sort of in all the social media outlets. You can always reach us at info@mobilehealthconsumer.com.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Amazing. Well, thanks again for being a guest today, John. It’s been really fun. Now, I’m hungry.
John Halloran:
I think I’m going to In-N-Out next, right?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey, everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now, that’s all for today and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.
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