Welcome to this bonus episode of Punk Rock HR! My guest for this episode is Donald Knight II, chief people officer of Greenhouse Software. You may know Greenhouse Software for its focus on recruitment, onboarding, diversity, inclusion, equity and belonging.
Donald is a new addition to the organization. In our conversation, we talked about what it was like getting hired during the pandemic, the importance of including the company’s mission in the hiring process and why retention’s biggest issue is burnout. We also discuss what’s next in HR and why we need employee allyship.
What excites Donald about his role is that he gets to find new ways to support people internally and externally. “Every day, I get to wake up and think about, ‘How do we help unlock the potential of the people here at Greenhouse?’ and then leverage that to help other companies do the same at their organizations,” he says.
So when the opportunity came to join a company that was not only purpose-led but also a software company focused on people, Donald knew that he couldn’t pass it up.
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Including the Mission and Culture at Every Step
At Greenhouse, one of the top priorities for Donald and the company is ensuring that people experience what Greenhouse is like no matter how they interact with it.
“We want them to feel that we put people first, but we also want them to feel that culturally we know how to bring people together in a way that is intentional,” Donald says. “In a way that empathy and vulnerability and collaboration are present. I think it’s rooted in our hiring process that we do a good job there.”
Donald is already looking at how Greenhouse can do more, and at scale. “I think the biggest room in the world is the room for improvement,” he says, “and so the opportunities moving forward is there’s so many people geographically dispersed, and as we grow and expand, we have to be intentional in that regard.”
Burnout Is the Issue
I read in a recent study by Workvivo that 98% of HR people are feeling burned out. The statistic is revealing. The world of HR isn’t easy to navigate, especially when the priorities of the people and organization are our top priorities. I know it’s important to take care of yourself, and Donald agrees.
“People teams and HR teams across the world do a really good job prioritizing the business and the teams that they support functionally,” he says. “We do a terrible job prioritizing ourselves and finding ways to create the space needed for us to recharge, relax and rejuvenate, and so it doesn’t shock me.”
That’s why Greenhouse is working to change things for everyone. “Some of the things that we’re doing is we’ve implemented, or we’ve continued a process, around recharge days,” Donald states.
Donald and his team are dedicated to ensuring that employees get the rest and rejuvenation they need, especially as a global organization.
Incorporating Genuine Allyship
While many people in the HR world are focused on wellbeing and overcoming burnout, we’re struggling to find good solutions for those problems. Without better solutions, the cycle will continue, and Donald believes that an untapped remedy is employee allyship.
“Typically when allyship is discussed is through the lens of inclusion and diversity and equity, but what we have found is that we need to be allies, particularly leaders, for wellbeing,” he says.
And allyship involves more than saying that you’ll be there for support. It means actually showing up. “The way companies are able to grow and generate revenue and profit is because they’re intentional about it, but they also add the tools needed in order to drive those types of outcomes or results,” Donald explains.
But this type of solution can’t happen without “bringing the right thought leaders to the table and prioritizing the conversations with mental health advocates, with doctors and health care professionals,” Donald says, “and prioritizing those conversations equally the way that we would do business results or OKRs or company conversations for the entire company.”
And Greenhouse is dedicated to doing just that. “We’ve committed to saying, we’re going to be drivers in having that level of education and bringing in those leaders needed for our teams to not only feel that we prioritize wellbeing, but really putting some of the action behind some of the words — to use what you said earlier, to ask the question,” Donald shares.
[bctt tweet=”‘We want them to feel that we put people first, but we also want them to feel that culturally we know how to bring people together in a way that is intentional.’ ~ Donald Knight II, CPO at @Greenhouse. Tune into this bonus episode of #PunkRockHR!” via=”no”]
People in This Episode
- Donald Knight II: LinkedIn
Full Transcript
Laurie Ruettimann:
This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Hey everybody, I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to a bonus episode of Punk Rock HR. My guest today is Donald Knight. He’s the chief people officer of Greenhouse Software. You may know Greenhouse for their focus on recruitment, onboarding, diversity, inclusion, equity and belonging, but Donald is new to the organization, and we have a conversation today about what it’s like to get hired as a chief people officer during a pandemic.
Now, if you’re interested in progressive people, practices and really thinking about what’s next for human resources, well, sit tight and enjoy this bonus episode with Donald Knight on this week’s Punk Rock HR.
Hey Donald, welcome to the podcast.
Donald Knight II:
Thank you for having me, Laurie. How are you?
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I’m terrific. I’m thrilled you’re here to talk about all things people and talent and all the good stuff. But before we do all of that, would you tell everybody who you are and what you’re all about?
Donald Knight II:
Sure, happy to do so. Donald Knight, I have the fortunate privilege of serving as chief people officer for Greenhouse Software. Greenhouse really focuses on being a hiring company and really helping companies hire better. Every day, I get to wake up and think about, “how do we help unlock the potential of the people here at Greenhouse?” and then leverage that to help other companies do the same at their organizations. So, I’m excited to talk people.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, it’s a pretty good job. You’re relatively new, if I’m not mistaken. Correct?
Donald Knight II:
You’re spot on. This would be day 78.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, all right, so you’re new to this job. Why Greenhouse?
Donald Knight II:
Why Greenhouse? Great question. I like being a part of a team that is purpose-led, and this thought process that Greenhouse is looking to help other companies get better at — what is widely known as a huge deficiency in the market — which is hiring people, and what does that process look and feel like? How do we ensure that folks are able to do the best work of their lives?
So I’m super-excited about that, that’s part of the reason. I think the other part is being a software company that is focused on people. As you can imagine, the people team at that company was very intriguing, and so the opportunity to be able to partner and collaborate with folks and help lead some of the impact that we can have in the market and provide thought leadership, I jumped at the opportunity.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I guess my next question is, why you? Why are you the person for this job?
Donald Knight II:
The three things that I’ve heard since joining that has made me at least feel not only excited, but affirmed me for joining is that I see the world globally, and my parents were military, so I moved around a lot. So that aids in my thought process of I recognize differences, but I celebrate our similarities, and I look for ways to build bridges with other people. I call it building proximity. So, I think that is a unique driver that I’ve been told.
I think the second thing is I’m a very exciting passionate person, but I’m equally empathetic for people. Empathy is something that is a huge tenant and principle for me and my family, and part of the way that my parents helped grow me and my brothers and sister. That level of empathy in a people leadership organization and in a people leadership role, I think, is one that pairs well with the culture.
Last, but certainly not least, I like to have fun. My background is in sales, and so being part of the people team, I look for ways for us to contribute in ways that are maybe nontraditional for most people teams, and I want to have fun doing so.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, you’re a smart guy with a lot of skills, and the world of human resources couldn’t have more opportunities to change the world of work, right? But I just read a statistic that 98% of people in the world of HR are burned out. So I wonder if you feel that, and I wonder if you’re all-in on HR, if you’re tired? How are you feeling about this work that you need to do?
Donald Knight II:
Yeah, so the statistic, while startling, does not shock me. People teams and HR teams across the world do a really good job prioritizing the business and the teams that they support functionally. We do a terrible job prioritizing ourselves and finding ways to create the space needed for us to recharge, relax and rejuvenate, and so it doesn’t shock me. Some of the things that we’re doing is we’ve implemented or we’ve continued a process around, recharge days. We’ve also added some additional tools to our mental health toolbox.
I think the last, but certainly not least — and your question is rather timely, because I actually just drafted an email on this, which is we have these conversations called virtual realities, where we talk about some of the hard stuff that people are seeing in a virtual world.
Not everybody can attend them, and so some of the feedback that I received was, “Hey Donald, are you against sharing a sentiment that if people can’t attend, can they still take the time that is already optional on their calendar? So it’s already blocked out, even if they can’t attend, can they use that time and repurpose it to go rejuvenate and recharge?” So literally hot off the press, I have it drafted. I haven’t pressed the send button, but I’ll take your question as confirmation that I need to press send.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, what’s the answer? What are you going to let them do with that hour?
Donald Knight II:
We’re going to encourage them to not only relax and recharge, but also use that time as some intentional time to find the resources that they feel may be helpful, given some of the things that we’re seeing in the world, and also then share that out. Let’s share that back to the team, because folks may not have stumbled upon the same resources, and if there’s some tools that we all can be leveraging, let’s do so. So yeah, we’re going to give them that hour, and our leadership team has jumped at the opportunity to be supportive in that regard.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I think about this world that we’re in right now, and everybody’s focused on wellbeing, and they’re focused on overcoming burnout, but there haven’t been a lot of good answers, other than to accept the fact that we need to do the work of being great employees and being mission-driven, and then we need to take time off, and we need to support one another. There’s a lot of talk like that in the marketplace.
I wonder if you’re seeing any really interesting solutions, other than intentionality. Have you bought anything? Are you bringing in speakers? What are you doing to make this happen? Because I think without real solutions, the conversation will just continue forever.
Donald Knight II:
One of the things that we recognize is the importance of allyship. Typically, when allyship is discussed is through the lens of inclusion and diversity and equity, but what we have found is that we need to be allies, particularly leaders, for wellbeing. It speaks to intentionality, but it also speaks to — the way companies are able to grow and generate revenue and profit is because they’re intentional about it, but they also add the tools needed in order to drive those types of outcomes or results. So, our team is looking at, what are some additional tools that we can bring on?
Some that we’ve seen in the market that — we haven’t necessarily inked the deal yet, but we are at least looking — is there’s companies that focus on metadata, and so you can see how people are trending, which would then allow leaders to be more prescriptive. Not proactive, but prescriptive in finding out, hey Laurie, hey Donald, you need to go talk to that person, because they’re trending towards a place that our thousands of companies based on that data tells us, “hey, you need to go address that, you need to go create that space.”
So, that’s one is adding additional tools. I think there’s other companies out there that allow for folks to have that level of calm or headspace needed, and how do you create a benefits strategy that allows for those to also be present? But I think last, but not least, is bringing the right thought leaders to the table and prioritizing the conversations with mental health advocates, with doctors and health care professionals, and prioritizing those conversations equally the way that we would do business results or OKRs or company conversations for the entire company.
So we’re looking at the second half of the year, and we’ve committed to saying, we’re going to be drivers in having that level of education and bringing in those leaders needed for our teams to not only feel that we prioritize wellbeing, but really putting some of the action behind some of the words — to use what you said earlier, to ask the question. So, that’s what I see us skating towards.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I like that approach, because I think part of the reason why human resources and people leaders are burned out is because so many individuals look to us for answers. We did have to play facilities engineers and location planners and doctors during the pandemic. We had to play all of these roles that are not really authentic. I mean, none of us truly are board-certified psychologists, and yet we were acting like that through the pandemic for our workforce. So, it’s nice that you’re bringing in that expertise on wellbeing to really drive the conversation to a new level.
What’s fascinating for me is that so many people in your role, Donald, don’t recognize that, if you don’t do people well at Greenhouse, you can’t help other organizations do people well in their companies, either. You have to drink your own champagne, you have to be category leaders in attracting and retaining the right people in order to sell your software.
Donald Knight II:
I totally agree with you. Ditto-underscore-retweet.
Laurie Ruettimann:
It’s not really a question, it’s more like, why don’t more tech companies get this? They’re selling you recruitment software and they’re terrible at recruiting, right? It just baffles the mind.
Donald Knight II:
Not that I’m defending those organizations by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it’s indicative of this thought process or mentality that, is your company truly people-first? So many people have focused on the software that impacts humans, they haven’t focused on the humans that are actually building said software. So, I think that’s where there’s a ripe opportunity and a void in the market where people want to hear thought leadership in that regard.
The beautiful thing about Greenhouse is that, culturally, it is embedded. Our founders were very intentional in curating a space and an environment where we do prioritize people, and we do have conversations that say, “if this is going to adversely impact our people, why are we doing this?” We deprioritize decisions that are going to not fare well with our talent. We’re very intentional in that, and so I think that’s a huge part of it.
I love how you said about we have to practice what we’re preaching essentially because we’re in the people space, and you’re spot-on. It reminds me of airlines, a great airline. One of my friends, he works at Delta, and he always reminds us that when people go through the emergency protocols, that most people aren’t really paying attention and they’re checked out, but he always reminds me, he’s like, “Hey, make sure you put your mask on first, and then you can help others put on their mask.”
So to your point, if we’re making sure that we’re growing and prioritizing the people in Greenhouse, then we can help other companies prioritize their people in their house. I’m excited to really help others in that regard.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Being new in your role gives you this tremendous opportunity to almost start fresh, right? I mean, you’ve got a legacy, a history of what’s been happening in your people function, but you can really set the stage, set the agenda for 2022 and beyond. So, what are some of your top priorities for the coming year, for the coming five years, right? You’re doing strategic planning. What does that look like?
Donald Knight II:
Yeah, you’re spot-on. There is a phenomenal opportunity to build on the momentum that we already have. I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that we definitely have momentum. Our people leadership team has done a phenomenal job positioning us where we are today, and so I’d want to make sure that I call them out for the great work that they’ve done.
In addition to that, I think there’s an opportunity to continue rolling in the right direction that we’re going, but to do so with a certain sense of velocity. So, some of the things that come to mind for me is the future of work, and how are we enhancing a value proposition for our people where they can see that their growth will be prioritized here at Greenhouse in the future of work.
To me, that’s not just development and creating pathways or a ladder for their career trajectory, but it also means, how are we being intentional around gathering people together and enhancing these experiences that allow them to feel that we’re nurturing our culture? I say that to say this: Roughly 70% of our organization is distributed. I intentionally use the word “distributed” because remote to me signals on an island, not connected, and distributed to me signals we are connected, we’re just geographically dispersed.
We’re so focused on that people experience. The number one priority for me is when people experience Greenhouse, what do we want them to experience? It will influence the future of work, because our folks are so distributed.
Laurie Ruettimann:
What do you want people to experience when they experience the Greenhouse brand — as employees, as even contractors or vendors, right? What’s the feeling you want them to have when they work for you, when they’re part of the mission? What is that?
Donald Knight II:
We want them to feel that we put people first, but we also want them to feel that, culturally, we know how to bring people together in a way that is intentional, in a way that empathy and vulnerability and collaboration are present. I think it’s rooted in our hiring process that we do a good job there. I think the biggest room in the world is the room for improvement, and so the opportunities moving forward is, there’s so many people geographically dispersed, and as we grow and expand, we have to be intentional in that regard.
So, I think that’s the first one is that people experiences and making sure that they feel our culture, which is huge. I think the second priority for me is scalable practices. We’re growing, huge.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I went to that conference, I saw.
Donald Knight II:
There you go, see. So for me, it’s around, what are some of the processes that we need to enhance to make them scalable? What are some of the processes that we need to sunset because they’re not scalable? I’ve always subscribed to this thought process is that if things can be automated and digital, they’re probably scalable.
It’s not to say that we dismiss human connection or the human touch by any stretch of the imagination. But there are some things that we can do just a little bit better, minor tweaks, minor pivots, that allow us to continue to grow where we aspire to be. So the scalable automation, scalable processes, is probably my second priority.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I’m curious when you talk about growth, because some organizations are like, “Ugh, we’re growing, it’s crazy around here.” That means five people, and that’s big for them, right? So, let’s put your growth in perspective. Do you have a number? Do you have some sort of way that we can envision the crazy growth you’re going through right now?
Donald Knight II:
Absolutely. Yeah, so the way I try to talk about growth is through two lenses, one with people and one with the organization. I’ll start with the second one, just because I think it’s rooted on a foundation of people. So, the second one being the organization. The organization has grown 50% year over year. If we look at our EMEA region, they’ve actually outperformed the company and have grown 53% year over year.
So, what does that look like as far as people is concerned? Two years ago, our EMEA region had a little less than 10 people there. Two years later, by the end of this year they’ll be at roughly 130 people. We’re at roughly 80+ today. If we look at Greenhouse as a whole, we’re roughly north of 700 and we will probably cross that 1,000 threshold Q1 of next year, early Q1 of next year.
So financially, we’re growing, as a people we’re growing, and I think that just magnifies the responsibility that we have on the people team to make sure that we’re developing them, because people will stay where they grow, so we want to make sure that we’re growing people. Then if we’re growing people, then we believe that the organization, too, will grow.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, have you been to that Dublin office yet?
Donald Knight II:
Have I? I am biased towards Ireland. I don’t think I’ve shared this story with you, Laurie. So in grad school, I studied abroad at the University College Cork in Cork, Ireland. It’s one of my favorite places on the face of the planet for so many reasons. It’s picturesque, you can also stand in places that are so old that it just reminds you that life is short.
Donald Knight II:
But yeah, my third week, Daniel and I, we took a trip to Ireland — Daniel, our CEO — and it was phenomenal to be able to connect with so many different people. The beauty is this, though. Typically, when we talk about diversity, in the U.S., we talk about visible diversity and races and gender, but when you go to Ireland, diversity is very different.
So, I’m happy to share that we have over 19 nationalities represented in that office and roughly 10+, it’s close to 14, but I’ll say 10+ languages that are spoken by people in that office. So to be able to see that, it was not only beautiful, but it also taught me that I need to go click down and practice my languages. So I resubscribed to Duolingo as a result.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Oh, I love that. Well, Ireland has done a really good job of attracting organizations and talents and they’ve done a great job just developing the island in a 21st-century way. So in some ways you’re right, diversity used to be Protestant and Catholic or redhead and brown hair, and now it’s so rich, it’s so vibrant. When I go to Dublin, it could be London at times, right? It feels really good. So I’m with you, I love Ireland, and I’m so glad that you’ve had a chance to experience it that way.
So, you’ve talked about the growth, right? Is there a third thing you’re focused on in human resources as you set your strategy for 2022 and beyond?
Donald Knight II:
Absolutely. I think the last one is as we develop our team, it’s grooming. I want to make sure that Greenhouse is a place where people can bloom, and that means that we have to water them. So, I’m excited about partnering with our partnerships and organizational development team to really dive deep on, what kind of annual programming do we want to build to ensure that, as folks grow in their careers, they can say that at Greenhouse we’ve continued to help them grow.
That for me is the foundation of everything that I do, I want people to feel like we’re unlocking their full potential. I feel like there’s so many companies out there that are full of people, but they’re full of people that are unfulfilled, because we haven’t taken the time to grow them in a way where we’re tapping into that discretionary effort. So I want us to evaluate what we’re doing programmatically to help grow them, and I want us to continue to measure, from their voices and from their lens, do they feel like we’re tapping into their full potential?
So I make no if, ands or bones about it, I’m very microscopic and zoomed in on: I want to unlock human potential. That’s big for me, and it’s part of the reason that I do all the things that I do.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love it. First stop, Greenhouse; next stop, main stage at the conferences. You’re like a Tony Robbins in the making, I love it.
Donald Knight II:
I appreciate that, that’s very kind of you. I don’t take that lightly coming from you, Laurie.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I had this feeling when I was at Greenhouse of just this mature respect from the workers to the leadership team. There’s just this nice collegiality, and so many organizations that try to be people-centric, they create co-dependencies. It’s like they’ve got attachment disorder, right? They’re looking to the CEO for all the answers, and instead, Daniel and your leadership team with John and you are really about enabling the workers. Everybody I work with at Greenhouse, they’re self-leaders, they’re individually accountable, and I love that, it’s so refreshing. So, congratulations on that.
Donald Knight II:
No, thank you. I feel, again, fortunate to have inherited a team that does that, and at the same time, recognize the responsibility to ensure that that continues. So, I’m glad that you were able to pick up on that.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, tell us what’s next for you. I’d like to say it’s hot HR summer this year. We’re all going to take vacations, we deserve it. So, you doing anything fun? You going anywhere?
Donald Knight II:
I am, yeah. So my family is probably one of the more diverse families that I know of. And so my sister-in-law, she’s Greek and her and my middle brother got married last year, so we did two weeks in Greece, and that’s my long way of saying Greece has won me over. So, I look forward to going back there and doing some more additional island-hopping this summer. Then my wife, she is in residency, and so we’ve been talking about trying to get out to South America. We have yet to go to that continent, and so we’re prioritizing which places we would like to go to, and then we’ll end up writing them down.
My favorite restaurant in Atlanta’s called The Consulate and they do these spin parties where they spin the globe, the person that’s selected to land their finger on the globe, they’re blindfolded, and then that inspires the menu for the next quarter. So, we’re going to write all these places down and put it inside of a cookie jar, and then we’ll have our 11-year-old, Daylen, really pull something out, and that will dictate where the family is going. So, those are probably the two biggest things for us this summer.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, I was just going to go to D.C. Going to take my niece to D.C., that’s my hot HR summer.
Donald Knight II:
There you go, there you go.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Literally hot in D.C. Well, listen, I hope you and your family have a safe summer, and thanks again for being a guest on Punk Rock HR.
Donald Knight II:
I appreciate you, Laurie. Thank you for having me.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now that’s all for today, and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.
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