My guest on this episode is Donald Thompson Jr., co-founder and CEO of The Diversity Movement, a full-service DEI consultancy with specialized technology. They have built a community and a team that includes business strategists, nationally recognized TEDx speakers and certified diversity executives.
Donald and I talk about things that organizations do right and wrong when talking about DEI, go deeper into his organization and discuss how he walks the talk as a diverse and inclusive leader every day. I love Donald not only because he’s a North Carolina neighbor but also because he’s got a smart view on the intersection of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging and technology.
“[E]verything that needs to be addressed doesn’t need dynamite. You don’t have to blow up the room to make a change in a positive way.” Donald declares. So, if you’re interested in a realistic and helpful conversation that’ll help leaders take real action during Black History Month and beyond, sit tight and listen to this episode of Punk Rock HR.
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
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What is The Diversity Movement?
When we hear the word “diversity,” many people automatically associate it with race, but diversity means more than race. DEI encompasses a range of areas, including disability, generational, geography, gender, sexual orientation and, of course, race.
Donald says that when we think about all the aspects that make individuals unique and truly amplify them within the business, that is what diversity, equity and inclusion is all about at its highest level. “We set out as The Diversity Movement to create a team of business leaders that can link diversity, equity, inclusion to the financial outcomes of an enterprise,” he says.
This approach has made them the leading marketplace in the industry. They’ve had significant growth within the last 12 months by creating a micro-video collection totaling “over 500 three- to five-minute vignettes on DEI topics” to assist on the learning journey. However, The Diversity Movement didn’t stop with the videos. It has built a digital learning space and utilized artificial intelligence tools to answer typical DEI questions through mobile applications. This enables organizations to support their portfolios with analytics “so that the leaders understand what the sentiment in their organization really is, not what they think it is,” Donald says.
Challenges That Are Slowing Progress
Diversity has become a hotter topic within the world of work, but it can be challenging to stay optimistic. Leaders and professionals must be intentional about what they are doing, but it can be tough to see change and be optimistic when people are “set in the narratives that pull us apart,” Donald says.
Historically, this comes back to how much it costs to instill these practices, and many organizations have found it cheaper to stay in the negative narrative. “There’s money in negativity. And when there’s money in something, that means there’s going to be a bunch of it, whether it’s media, whether it’s politics, what have you. And so that is something to where we are pushing a positive message uphill,” he shares.
That is the reality in which we live, but it’s essential to understand that change doesn’t happen with the snap of our fingers. Changing the narrative involves continuous and intentional work while being open to other ideas.
“The way that I think about it is very simple: If someone’s critical, my goal is to move them to curious. If somebody is curious, then I want to move them to engage. But we’re not trying to take somebody from curious to engagement in one step. We’re just trying to create an expansion of ideas,” Donald states.
Leaders Taking Initiative
So how do you start? When it comes to utilizing The Diversity Movement, the people who buy its products have different behaviors depending on the number of people within the organization.
Donald shares that, with smaller organizations, the CEO is hands-on in developing and implementing DEI strategies. While for bigger organizations, these processes are handled more often by HR leaders or DEI teams solely focused on bringing more diversity into the organization.
These are the areas Donald and his team sell to while emphasizing the importance of education being a top priority. “Diversity, equity, inclusion is a very personal initiative for leaders because you have to be open to talk about what’s not working on getting to the other side of what the future state should be,” Donald says. “And so that means we provide a lot of free education, whether it’s our website or our free webinars, so you get to know our team.”
[bctt tweet=”‘Everything that needs to be addressed doesn’t need dynamite. You don’t have to blow up the room to make a change in a positive way.’ ~ @DonThompson_Jr, co-founder and CEO of @diversitymvmt. Tune in to #PunkRockHR to learn more about Donald’s work!” via=”no”]
People in This Episode
- Donald Thompson Jr.: LinkedIn, Twitter, The Diversity Movement website
Full Transcript
Laurie Ruettimann:
This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Hey, everybody. I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guest today is Donald Thompson Jr. He’s the co-founder and CEO of The Diversity Movement. They are a full-service DEI consultancy with really special technology and a community in place, and a team that includes business strategists, nationally recognized TEDx speakers and certified diversity executives. On today’s show, Donald and I talk about the things that organizations do right and the things they get wrong when talking about DE&I. We also go deep and talk about his own organization and how he walks the talk as a diverse and inclusive leader. I love Donald not only because he’s a neighbor with me here in North Carolina, but because he’s got a smart take on that intersection of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging and technology. So if you’re interested in a realistic and super helpful conversation, especially during Black History Month, well, sit tight and enjoy this conversation with Donald Thompson Jr.
Hey, Donald. Welcome to the show.
Donald Thompson:
Thanks for having me. Super-excited to be here.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I’m pleased to have you, neighbor, colleague, all the good things. Why don’t you tell us all who you are and what you’re all about?
Donald Thompson:
My name is Donald Thompson. I like to introduce myself as the son of a football coach. That means I enjoy teams, competition, and try, fail and adjust is kind of part of my DNA. From a business standpoint, I’m the co-founder and CEO of The Diversity Movement, and we help folks productize their diversity, equity, and inclusion journey. So we have tools from micro videos to digital learning to mobile applications that really help HR leaders systematize a DEI program.
Laurie Ruettimann:
So, Donald, I think I heard you say, “Try, fail and learn.” What’s that all about?
Donald Thompson:
Well, one of the things that when we think about ourselves or I do as a corporate athlete, right, that means mistakes are OK as long as you learn from them, right? It’s not the mistake, it’s really the progression of improvement. And if you improve a little bit in each outcome, then you’re going to be pretty amazing at what you put your mind to. If I have any superpower, it’s the fact that I don’t let mistakes become the fuel. I let the learning from the mistakes become the fuel for my future success.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I really love that and appreciate that. I’m someone who only learns by failure, as most of us do. But I think there’s this tendency right now in our corporate cultures and maybe in society at large to be really afraid of making mistakes, yet people make mistakes all the time, right? So can you talk a little bit about that tension and how you see that manifesting in the workplace?
Donald Thompson:
As much as we talk about autonomy and broadening the tent for decision making, we’re still in a society that values hierarchy. And you’re still trying to please your boss. You’re still trying to look good for shareholders or investors. And so there is a tension between being innovative and trying new things and really understanding how to emotionally internalize failure. It’s really about courage and safe space, it’s two things that are really, really important. Anywhere I’ve worked with a leader, I’ve grown my career where I was able to exemplify courage. But that leader gave me the safe space to be accountable but to learn from that failing is where innovation lives. And the reason that folks find it so tough in this day and age is there’s so much tension around saying the perfect words, around all the things that separate us. We’re all kind of walking on eggshells these days. And it’s really unfortunate quite frankly, because that limits the enthusiasm and the energy we can put in our work, because we’re always kind of looking over our shoulder a little bit.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I hear that from my friends and colleagues who are at work. They’re afraid of saying the wrong thing, or someone has said the wrong thing and they’re afraid of voicing that and having a conversation for concern around backlash and career implications. Who goes first? How do we get to the heart of this?
Donald Thompson:
Oh man, there’s a thing that I will say. And I’ll use a really quick story where you can be firm and gracious. So I was in a meeting and this was several years ago, and I’ll be really brief, when I wasn’t a CEO. I wasn’t a leader. I wasn’t an investor. I was an up-and-coming emerging person within a company. And so the fear and the temperature is a little different. And I heard somebody say something that wasn’t appropriate in a corporate boardroom. And they used the term “Indian giver.” And so at that moment you have to decide, do we say something now? Do you take it offline? Do I just let it go because it’s not my place? And so, in that moment, I had to exemplify courage and say, and I made it firm, but gracious.
And I said, “John,” just for lack of a better name to use, to protect any privacy. “That’s not the way I remember that term, even though I’m not amazing in history.” And then the room went silent. And John said, “Don, can we take this offline to apologize? And I’d like to chat with you after.” And I said, “Absolutely.” But in that moment, I decided not to be over the top with it because that’s also not necessarily professional in every situation. But also, I needed to level set that something was said that wasn’t appropriate, and it needs to be dealt with at some point. A lot of times who goes first is we’ve got to give ourselves the room as leaders, and a lot of folks on your listening audience or leaders, to not let things go that need to be addressed. That everything that needs to be addressed doesn’t need dynamite. We don’t have to blow up the room to make change in a positive way. And that’s something that I think is super-important.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love the way this conversation kicks off because I know that you’re passionate about so many things, leadership development, diversity and inclusion, right? Just the next crop of leaders in general, right? This new and burgeoning movement of workers who are growing up in the world of COVID. So let’s get started by talking about what you’re currently doing today. Tell us all about your organization.
Donald Thompson:
And thank you for that space. I really appreciate it. So The Diversity Movement, and one of the things when you hear the word diversity, I try to help people along. It’s more than just race. I talk to folks about the kaleidoscope of DEI. Disability, generational, geography, and yes, race, gender, sexual orientation. But when we think about all of the things that make people unique and amplify those things for the better good of the business, that’s how I describe diversity, equity, inclusion at a very, very high level. We set out as The Diversity Movement to create a team of business leaders that can link diversity, equity, inclusion to the financial outcomes of an enterprise.
And that’s why we’re winning in the marketplace. We’ve grown from zero to 95 clients in the last 12 months. We are unique in that we have productized the DEI journey, meaning we have a portfolio of micro-videos that have over 500 three- to five-minute vignettes on DEI topics that can go into the learning journey. We have digital learning and courseware, but we also have mobile applications, AI tools to answer questions for people so that the DEI leader doesn’t get bogged down in answering the same basic questions over and over again. And then we underpin that product portfolio with analytics so that the leaders understand what the sentiment in their organization really is, not what they think it is.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I like how you tie it to results. I mean, I don’t need someone to tell me that there’s a business case for people being decent human beings, right? I don’t need that, but so many organizations want to tie their diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging efforts into financials. So tell me, what is the case? And do we really need to make the case in 2022?
Donald Thompson:
The thing in 2022 is not making the case for “why,” but people are struggling with the “how to.” Managers are inundated with these new things that they have to learn. But they grew up in the organization as a rockstar engineer, a rockstar sales professional, a CFO that the numbers are just right and the forecasting for the business is on point. And now we’re asking those same leaders to understand belonging, to understand the emotive component of things that they weren’t equipped to do. So the “how to” means we have to create mentoring opportunities in the flow of work, so to speak, where we are giving people the opportunity to learn how to give better feedback in an inclusive leadership way, right?
Because that’s what leaders do, they give feedback. It is how to create mentorship and sponsorship in an inclusive way, because that’s what leaders do. It’s not that we need just more talent. It’s, how do you create a resume and a recruiting process that broadens the tent? So we’re very focused in 2022 on the “how to,” because the “why” is what most everyone is talking about. But the “how to get it done” is I think the missing component.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah. How to get it done. And then I guess how to pay for it is the other equation out of this. So when you sell into an organization, who’s buying your product? Who do you work with?
Donald Thompson:
So it is a couple of different personas. It’s the CEO when it’s a business that’s usually under about 500 folks. That individual is still leading in a very hands-on way. When it’s an organization 500-plus, now you’re talking into learning and development, your HR leader. And some folks do have a diversity, equity, inclusion team, depending on their size, their scale and readiness. And those are kind of the functional areas that we sell into. The thing that we describe is that we educate first and the sales process becomes more natural. Diversity, equity, inclusion is a very personal initiative for leaders because you have to be open to talk about what’s not working to get to the other side of what the future state should be. And so that means we provide a lot of free education, whether it’s our website, our free webinars, so you get to know our team. And then when you trust us, then you’ll ask us questions. When you ask us questions, you’ll evaluate us. Once you evaluate us, then we can talk about how to do business.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I’m really fascinated by the creation of a tool, whether it’s a mobile tool or an AI tool, that really lightens the load of diversity, equity and inclusion officers, right? These are generally African American women who are bogged down answering the same questions over and over again. So how are you lightening their load?
Donald Thompson:
So what we found, to really zero in that demographic, is they’re spending 10 to 15% of their time on those basic DEI questions, and they’re not able to really track it and scale. So our AI tool basically has compiled the top 1,000 questions and not only given those answers, but then links to very specific resources that they can refer folks to. So we’ve basically taken individual questions that we’ve learned, research that we’ve done, and we basically have created a chief diversity office in a box. And that’s whether it’s white papers, videos, podcasts or through our AI tool. And people like it very much.
Laurie Ruettimann:
So Donald, you know I have to ask you some of those top questions that these diversity officers are fielding. Humor me, what are some questions that they get over and over again?
Donald Thompson:
“Is DEI a fad?” is one of the ones that they get over and over again, because there’s a resistance to learning something new. And so the way we answer that question, quite frankly, is not necessarily even from a racial perspective, but from a demographic shift of our society as a whole. We’re becoming a more multicultural country. More and more people are being educated at higher and higher levels from all different types of ethnicities. There’s not a way to avoid it. I think about it like this. 20, 30 years ago, people were saying, “Is rap music a fad?” And now it is one of the most dominant cultural movements for business, for entertainment, across the world. And so whether or not it’s a fad is not the question, is it going to move from a fad to a trend to a part of our daily business fabric? And that’s how we talk about that one question, but we get that a lot.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I love it. All right. One more question.
Donald Thompson:
So another one that we get quite frankly is, “Where do I fit in if I’m a middle-aged white professional in this DEI movement?” And that question comes from a place of a couple of different elements. Number one, it’s a little bit of fear because quite frankly, when I talk to leaders and business folks that fit in that demographic, they’re a little tired of being the villain in the room in every meeting. I get why it is. But if we’re trying to motivate a group of people to move a dialogue forward, then we can’t talk about inclusion and create exclusion in the same conversation and expect to go forward. And so we try to have the conversation to where not only is everybody included in it, but we look at points of view of the majority, even while we’re looking at the underrepresented folks that need to have their moment, as well.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I don’t know how you stay optimistic doing the work that you do, because you can get some pretty cynical, dark questions I would imagine. And you might also see organizations that get in their own way of making progress. So what are some of the things that slow an organization down on their DE, and I journey?
Donald Thompson:
So one of the things I’ll speak to, and then I’ll answer the question, is I am a pretty significant optimist. But there are days that are tough because people are set in the narratives that pull us apart. There’s money in negativity. And when there’s money in something, that means there’s going to be a bunch of it, whether it’s media, whether it’s politics, what have you. And so that is something to where we are pushing a positive message uphill. And that’s the reality of it. The second component to your question is, as we look at evolving this dialogue, we’re not looking to change everyone at once. The way that I think about it is very simple: If someone’s critical, my goal is to move them to curious. If somebody is curious, then I want to move them to engaged. But we’re not trying to take somebody from curious to engagement in one step. We’re just trying to create an expansion of ideas.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, I get that. I mean, I love the analogy you made to Sisyphus and rolling that boulder up a hill because that can be pretty daunting. But if you do it slowly, a couple of inches at a time, I can see how you would make some progress in this journey. That makes sense to me. You mentioned that there’s budget for negativity. And I see that in this world. I also see that there’s budget for good in a lot of large enterprises, a lot of large organizations. But sometimes there’s not budget in the small companies that need this most. So if you’re an organization with fewer than a hundred people, or you’re an entrepreneur, and you’re interested in taking your team, your organization on this journey, how do you get started?
Donald Thompson:
So one of the things that I would recommend very specifically to your audience is go to thediversitymovement.com and get inundated with our free content. For example, let me be very specific. We are in Black History Month right now. And if you’re a small organization without a DEI team, go to thediversitymovement.com and we have a free, very detailed guide about how to introduce this programming into your organization. We’re simply here to help, because our mission certainly has to do with monetization, but it also has to do in good in the world. So we have a lot of free content for that small-business leader, number one.
And then number two, and this is really important. We’re scaling out a program that will be launching in March, and so hit us up if you’re interested in being part of the beta, to where we’re building a membership program specifically for small- and medium-sized businesses. So that for $10,000, you can join one of our cohorts. You can have access to our best practices. You can have one-on-one coaching, unlimited email and phone support, because we refuse to leave anyone behind that wants to do more and better in this DEI journey.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I wonder why you do what you do. Everybody has an origin story. What’s yours?
Donald Thompson:
So my origin story is, obviously you can’t see me, but I am a Black man. And I’ve been very fortunate, and I have privilege. Privilege is not based on your color. It’s based on your circumstance and your experience. I grew up in a family with two parents. I was very fortunate to get a great education. I have had a lot of experiences. And my origin story leads me that I’ve got to give back. My responsibility with any success that I’ve had is to now do something with this moment in time to where I can make a major difference that will be global in its effect.
One of the things I’ll give you an example is, I was on the phone with folks, just today, with folks from four different countries. Talking about how to create DEI from a global perspective, because it’s just not something that’s affecting us in North America. It is now something that we’re rethinking as a society as a whole. And so that origin story of David versus Goliath, always about, how do I help the underdog slay the giant? And that sums up kind of who I am and what I want to do both now and in the future as best I can.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love that you’re slaying the giant as an entrepreneur, as a tech innovator. I mean, I think all of that’s very cool. There’s so many times when I interview individuals who start a company and build software to solve a problem, and they don’t solve it within their organization. I can’t tell you how many times I talk to a tech entrepreneur who’s passionate about employee engagement, and his own employees hate that company. So I just wonder, what’s your team like? And what are you doing to ensure that you live your values and you walk your talk at your own organization?
Donald Thompson:
I love the question. Appreciate the accountability layered into that question. It’s awesome. I’ll give you an example of something we did today. So we took an hour and 30 minutes with our staff. We’re a small team, about 20 folks. And we had a mental health professional come in and talk about how to de-stress your work-life balance, and basically create integration. So every two weeks we try to model that learning mentality, number one. Number two, we take feedback, and I’ll give another example. So before the holidays, we had a team meeting, a team Zoom call, and I asked each one of our team members to tell us something that we’re not doing right. And I got a lot of comments.
Donald Thompson:
Right? I got a lot of comments. But we’re addressing each one of those comments one by one. And we have a team meeting on the 24th where I will give that feedback on those comments, number two. And then number three, like any organization, when you have turnover, we listen to the folks that love what we’re doing. And then we listen to the folks that didn’t have an amazing experience for some reason. And there’s learning in both. To have a great organization means to have an authentic one. And that means everything’s not perfect on every day. But you got to get better from it so you don’t keep repeating the same mistakes. And those are some of the things that are kind of embedded in our culture, with a few specifics to give the audience some examples.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love where you’re going with this because not only are you trying to model an example of what it means to be a modern-day leader within your own organization, but you’re teaching it. And you’re trying to really reach down to organizations that may or may not have the necessary budget to acquire technology, right? So you’ve got your program starting up in March. I mean, these are all amazing endeavors. As we start to wrap up the conversation, what do you want to leave the audience with knowing about you, your movement, your tech, and what you’re trying to accomplish in this industry?
Donald Thompson:
Innovation lives where people come together to collaborate with a purpose. And so wherever you sit in the DEI journey, join our newsletter, sit in on some of our webinars. Before we even talk about a purchase or buying decision, I just encourage people to get to know us. And even if you take that good idea and implement it, just give us feedback on how it worked out, because there’s so much work to do. We’re just quite frankly, finding the partners, the clients and customers that align with our vision and our tools, but we need to learn from each other. And those shared experiences are really, really important in an area where change is really, really rapid. And so that’s how I would encourage people to engage with us.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I love it. I was just thinking as you were talking, I believe there are such things as dumb questions. But I love where the conversation went because you’re really encouraging kind of a candor around this dialogue and people to be brave and bold and to get educated.
Donald Thompson:
That’s exactly right. And I think the final thing that I would add is we’re also a great place to ask that question that you don’t know where else to turn, because we’re not in the judgment business, we’re in the solution business. And we’re just trying to provide answers, perspectives, insights or somewhere to research for those that are seeking. And that’s what brings us together with the folks that choose to work with us in a powerful way.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, Donald, once again, can you give us your website where everybody can find you?
Donald Thompson:
Thediversitymovement.com is where you can find us from a corporate standpoint. And I’m very active, Donald Thompson on LinkedIn. And so love to engage with folks and really open to quick questions and different things. I know how to call the ball when people have asked their 10th question. All right, you got to pay. But if you’ve got one or two questions or different things, hit me up. Let’s have a dialogue. Let’s make the world better together.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Love it. Amazing. Thanks again for being a guest today.
Donald Thompson:
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey, everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions, for more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links, and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now that’s all for today, and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.
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