My guests today are Chas Fields and Teresa Smith. They’re part of the HCM Advisory Group at the Workforce Institute at UKG, where they offer insights and advice to corporate HR leaders and business leaders just like you. Today’s conversation focuses on understanding big data. We talk about where it is, what it feels like, what it means and how to utilize big data to really fix work.
If you’re on an HR journey and you’re asking yourself how big data can be used as a tool for better corporate storytelling or to improve the employee experience, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Chas Fields and Teresa Smith.
Punk Rock HR is proudly sponsored by UKG. They are an award-winning all-in-one HR platform. If you’re curious and want to fix work and do HR better, check out our sponsors at UKG.com.
Download my white paper “The Way Forward: A Look at Post-Crisis Work Life,” created in partnership with UKG.
What Do We Mean By “Big Data” Anyway?
Everybody has a definition of big data, and most of them aren’t great. I wanted to know what big data actually is, so I asked two people I trust on the topic.
Starting with a straightforward definition, Theresa explains big data basics. “It’s really a way for organizations to take data from different systems and processes that they’re doing to look at it in a holistic view to really drive the organization forward.”
The explanation makes sense, but where do I find big data? Can I find it on a computer or system? Where does it sit, and where does it reside?
Chas’ answer is both clear and startling. “It’s everywhere. It really boils down to how you’re tracking and its data at high speed and velocity. I mean, at the core, that’s what we’re talking about, is a lot of it at a high speed. So it could be across multiple systems. It could be data that’s in your mind.
“Now, when you start to talk about big data, immediately, you think about the technology piece,” Chas continues. “So for a lot of companies that Teresa and I work with, it’s in Microsoft Excel. It could be in your ERP. It could be in your HCM. It could be in your time clocks. It could be all of these different places, even in your logistics software or your service and distribution software. All of it plays a factor into your people and how you, as an organization, make decisions.”
Understanding Big Data as a Storytelling Device
The idea of storytelling with data is exciting. When we talk about big data, it’s often focused on a weird, robotic way of thinking that only IT folks understand. I want to be able to tell a more remarkable story about employees. I want some emotional resonance. What is the emotional impact of big data? What’s the potential? What can be realized with it?
Teresa has a way of spelling it out that makes perfect sense. “We see a lot of organizations where they’re touting their data, but they’re still not really understanding what it’s saying. And as a result, we often get paralyzed by what actions we need to take to make corrections if the data hints at the slightest little problem. So many times, this is a result of not having a fully, good understanding of their data and how that data can really be brought to life.”
Teresa expands that thought. “It’s a lot to comprehend. And it can be frustrating when they’re told that these areas really should be their focus, without having a sense of how that will happen or where all these activities will fit in our day-to-day.”
Chas uses his knowledge to point out that “in every decision you make, there’s going to be a positive reaction or a negative reaction. And I think it boils down to, one, is your data trusted? If it’s garbage in, it’s going to be garbage out. And if it’s garbage out, that does impact the employees because you’re making decisions on something that is literally trash, for lack of a better term. Right? So we have to take a look at that, right?
“If we sit here and we say, ‘We care about the business,’ we have to make sure that we care about our people first because they’re the ones that make the business thrive.” Chas understands every side of big data. “There’s a lot of positive that can really, really come out of [big data]. But again, it goes back to understanding and teaching these components first.”
Using Big Data to Improve the Employee Experience
Client and customer stories make concepts easier to understand. What happens when people rethink their relationship with big data? How does it look in the real world, and how does it make work better? We are here to fix work and improve employee experiences, after all.
Teresa was happy to oblige. “I was working with a customer who was having high turnover, and they were really having a hard time retaining their talent. So, they pulled the traditional reports of turnover in headcount, and they were able to identify that. But once they started looking at big data, really peeling back the layers and looking to identify the trends and what was happening in the organization overall, what they found was, they didn’t just only have a turnover and a headcount issue. They had a deeper issue with a particular department, and it was the manager that had a lack of training.
“So it all boiled down to the point that their manager needed more effective training to help lead their people and guide them in a positive direction for the organization,” Teresa continues. “That’s a simple story, but by peeling back that data and really diving into it, they were able to uncover a deeper problem than just their turnover in headcount.”
[bctt tweet=”There’s a lot of positives that can really, really come out of big data. But it goes back to understanding and teaching the components first. ~ Chas Fields of @UKGInc. Learn more about using big data on Punk Rock HR!” via=”no”]
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Laurie Ruettimann:
Punk Rock HR is proudly sponsored by UKG. Visit ukg.com to learn more about their award-winning, all-in-one HR solution. They’re going to make your life easier. Head on over to ukg.com.
Hey, everybody. I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome to Punk Rock HR. My guests today are Chas Fields and Teresa Smith. They’re part of the HCM Advisory Group at UKG, where they offer insights and advice to corporate HR leaders and business leaders, just like you. Today’s conversation focuses on big data, but not like it’s 2016. We bring it to life in 2021. We talk about where it is, what it feels like, what it means, and how to utilize big data to really fix work. So if you’re on an HR journey and you’re like, “Ah! I need to improve my executive presence,” or, “I want to tell better stories and make the case for fixing the employee experience.” — well, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Chas Fields and Teresa Smith.
Hey, y’all, welcome to the podcast.
Chas Fields:
Hey, Laurie. It’s good to be here. Thank you so much for having us.
Teresa Smith:
Morning, everybody.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, it’s great to see you both. As our audience can see and hear, we’ve got a panel today. I think that’s what you call two people. We’ve got Chas and Teresa. And before we get started, Chas, we’ll start with you. Why don’t you tell everybody who you are and what you’re all about?
Chas Fields:
Hey, I’m Chas Fields. I’m a senior partner of the HCM Strategic Advisory Group and Human Insights here at UKG. What do we do? So, we do a lot of thought leadership. We do a lot of writing. We do a lot of speaking around the world. Probably our favorite, or at least my favorite part of the job, is the consulting element, where we get to have conversations about people with their people at work. And how can we improve the bottom line through people, and whether it’s engagement or productivity or trust, that’s what we do. So, it’s really exciting to be here. Thank you for having us.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Sure. And Teresa, what do you do for a living? Who are you? What are you all about?
Teresa Smith:
Yeah. So, Teresa Smith, and I am the senior managing partner of the HCM Strategic Advisory Group. So Chas and I work very closely together. We do a lot of writing and speaking on HR topics and trends that are impacting organizations everywhere. And we’re just looking forward to having a conversation today.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love it. I’m real grateful you’re both here, because we’re going to talk about big data. That’s the topic. But before we get started, I just wonder, if you guys want to take a swing at the question of, where are we in the world of work right now in 2021? What do you see? What are you feeling? What’s on the horizon? When you talk to your clients, what are they talking about? So Chas, let’s start with you.
Chas Fields:
Yeah. So, it’s really hard. I think we’re all kind of, COVID’d out. The COVID fatigue is set in, but it’s like Teresa and I were talking earlier, it’s a very real thing still, based on the disruption and all of the issues it’s caused, and what HR has to navigate now. I was speaking this past week, and some folks came up to us and said, “How do you feel about the vaccines being approved by the FDA?” And my response was, “You need to be prepared, how you’re going to handle it if the government says they’re going to mandate vaccines now that it has been FDA-approved.”
That’s on the forefront of a lot of people’s mind. Obviously, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging is still at the forefront of a lot of people’s minds. But people are just really, really unsure right now, specifically around job security, what’s going on with the economy, and different components of that. So, we talk to them and we just say, “Hey, better days ahead. Let’s answer what we can now and move forward.” Teresa?
Teresa Smith:
Yeah. Chas, you’re spot on with that. And I think one of the biggest things we’re seeing out there, is FUD — fear, uncertainty and doubt. With so much happening, not just with COVID, but everything that’s happening with all the natural disasters, civil and social unrest around the world. People really, I think, are feeling those impacts, and it’s impacting organizations as they look to prepare and plan for the future.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, that’s really interesting, especially around FUD, because one of the things we say is that data can really tell a story and help to almost calm people down, to give them information. Right? To help them plan, to make them just a little bit more emotionally regulated. So, let’s talk about that. But I want to take a step back because I want to know what big data is. Everybody has a definition and most of them are not good. So, I don’t know, either one of you tell me what big data is.
Teresa Smith:
I’m going to put it in layman’s terms here, but it’s really a way for organizations to take data from different systems and processes that they’re doing, to look at it in a holistic view to really drive the organization forward.
Laurie Ruettimann:
That makes sense to me. Where do I find big data? Where is it? Can I find it in a computer? Can I find it in a system? Where does it sit? Where does it reside?
Chas Fields:
That’s a great question. Here’s the deal. It’s everywhere. It really boils down to how you’re tracking and it’s data at high speed and velocity. I mean, at the core, that’s what we’re talking about, is a lot of it at a high speed. So it could be across multiple systems. It could be data that’s in your mind.
Now, when you start to talk about big data, immediately, you think about the technology piece. So for a lot of companies that Teresa and I work with, it’s in Microsoft Excel. It could be in your ERP. It could be in your HCM. It could be in your time clocks. It could be all of these different places, even in your logistics software or your service and distribution software. All of it plays a factor into your people and how you, as an organization, make decisions.
Laurie Ruettimann:
So, we’ve got big data. It’s too big for me to kind of look at it and make any sense of it. Right? It’s in systems, it’s all over. And to have it tell a story, we need to process it. Right? So how do we do that? Is that through HR technology and tools? Is that through systems? When you work in HR, what do you do with this big data? Why and how is it useful?
Teresa Smith:
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things around why and how it’s useful is, it comes in a variety of different methods, as Chas mentioned. Right? So, you may even have big data in some of your manual processes. So it’s making sure that you have that data in a single view that you can pull from, or to be able to easily integrate data from various different systems to really begin to paint that picture or tell that story across the organization. Problem is, sometimes it’s a little too complex. Right? So we kind of push away from it or we shy away from it, and we just go back to our traditional methods of using data overall.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Amazing. All right. So, I can see why it would then be important to figure out a way to get to this data, because we want to tell better stories, make better decisions. Tell me why this is still important. Because we’ve been talking about this for like a decade, but I don’t think we make a good enough case as to why this is important in human resources.
Chas Fields:
Great question. I think what’s really interesting about this whole thing, and Teresa and I were talking about this before, and we hear it all the time, is, HR has their hands in just about every part of the business. Right? They just do so much. And what happens is, an executive or a leadership person says, “Tell us more about big data and tell us about our people data.” And if I’m being honest, sometimes HR doesn’t have the ability or has been given the opportunity to be trained on even how to assess data, day in and day out. Right?
So, then you hear about artificial intelligence, Laurie. And it’s like, “Well, how do we use AI in our decision-making?” And now don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of technology out there that will help you address sentiment and provide recommendations, and let the data and the AI do what it’s supposed to do. But we also have to take a step back and think about, “Have we even taught HR how to practically look at data and say, ‘Here is what you’re seeing. Here are the decisions that you can make from this’?
And I think when you break it down into smaller pieces of the pie, it’s not as scary. Right? But we can’t just flip a switch and be a data scientist like Teresa is overnight. Those things take time, and they take resources, and they take training. And that’s what we’re trying to accomplish, is to say, “Hey, look, there is tech out there that will help you, but there’s all so many ways that you can address it in simpler forms.” So if you don’t have the technology, you can actually make that story for yourself and say, “I looked at X, Y, Z charts, graphs, X, Y, Z Excel spreadsheets, and we started here and here’s how we’ve improved. And here’s what we’re going” and really create that strategic vision and goals.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I like this idea of storytelling with data, because you’re right. When we talk about it, it’s often focused on this weird, robotic way of thinking and it’s for IT folk. And I want to be able to tell a greater story about employees. I want some emotional resonance. So talk to me about the emotional impact of big data. What’s the potential? What can be realized with it?
Teresa Smith:
Well definitely, don’t shy away from big data. Right? That’s the most important thing here. But currently, we see a lot of organizations where they’re touting their data, but they’re still not really understanding what it’s saying. And, as a result, we often get paralyzed by what actions we need to take to make corrections, if the data hints the slightest little problem. So many times, this is a result of not having a fully, good understanding of their data and how that data can really be brought to life.
So, I think HR leaders and people managers kind of get inundated with these terms like strategic data or artificial intelligence, people analytics and machine learning. It’s a lot to comprehend. And it can be frustrating, when they’re told that these areas really should be their focus without having a sense of how that will happen or where all these activities will fit in our day-to-day.
This is frustrating also for our employees and our managers and leaders alike. Because when you have a lack of data or data is bad or it’s inaccurate, and it’s difficult to access or understand, it impacts every part of the business. And the business, it’s impacted because if they don’t have access to the right data — think about that for a second. Right? If you don’t have access to the right data, it can result in poor customer service that can impact the bottom line.
And then when we look at it from an employee perspective, if it’s difficult to get data out, or the data is hard to understand, it can be very frustrating for the employees, especially when they need information in a timely manner to make personal, as well as professional, decisions. And this is where you start seeing that emotions of the employee morale declining. And then for our managers and our leaders, if they don’t have the data they need to drive their teams and move the organization forward, it really makes it difficult for them to make organizational and strategic changes to their people and their processes. And really, it’s hard to align their people with the organizational goals. So, there’s a lot of emotions behind all of this.
Chas Fields:
Yeah. I think the big key is, and this goes back to physics, with every action, there’s a reaction. In every decision you make, there’s going to be a positive reaction or a negative reaction. And I think it boils down to, one, is your data trusted? If it’s garbage in, it’s going to be garbage out. And if it’s garbage out, that does impact the employees because you’re making decisions on something that is literally trash, for lack of a better term. Right? So we have to take a look at that, right?
If we sit here and we say, “We care about the business.”, we have to make sure that we care about our people first, because they’re the ones that make the business thrive. And if we are impacting the business in a negative way, emotionally, as Teresa just described, what do we expect? Right? We’re probably going to expect that decline in behavior, that quality control. Whatever the positive tone, when someone picks up the phone from customer service, simply because we took a look at big data and said, “This is what we should do. And it’s not the right decision.” Right? So, there’s a lot of positive that can really, really come out of it. But again, it goes back to understanding and teaching these components first.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, that makes sense to me. So, I wonder if we can make this a little human. Do you have a client story or a customer story of some organization that was actually transformed through rethinking their relationship with big data? How does this look in the real world, and how does it make work better? Because ultimately, that’s what we’re here to do, right? We’re here to fix work, to improve employee experiences. So, tell us a story about this journey that an organization has been on.
Teresa Smith:
I was working with a customer who was having high turnover, and they were really having a hard time retaining their talent. So, they pulled the traditional reports of turnover and headcount, and they were able to identify that. But once they started looking at big data, really peeling back the layers and looking to identify the trends and what was happening in the organization overall, what they found was, they didn’t just only have a turnover and a headcount issue. They had a deeper issue with a particular department, and it was the manager that had a lack of training.
So, people were leaving the organization because they didn’t feel like their manager was leading them appropriately. So their performance was dropping, their customer responses, they were getting bad scores on their surveys. So it all boiled down to the point that their manager needed more effective training to help lead their people and guide them in a positive direction for the organization. That’s a simple story, but by peeling back that data and really diving into it, they were able to uncover a deeper problem than just their turnover in headcount.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Really interesting. The vision that comes to me when you tell that story, it’s almost like they can take a drone and go directly in and pinpoint something that’s going wrong out of all of these data points. I mean, that’s really fascinating, and it allows an organization to operate in a more agile way. So that’s really, I think, refreshing and also very interesting that you can do that with data. I don’t know, Chas, you got a better story than that?
Chas Fields:
I mean, I don’t know that it’s a better story. [crosstalk 00:13:28] So, maybe I highlight some of the things that Teresa talked about there. I think the reality of it is, when we take a look at some of the things that we notice with trends, one of the things that we know with HR people, is they open up all these Excel spreadsheets. And Teresa and I can literally watch their face go blank.
I was working with a customer out of Oklahoma. It was a manufacturing environment, and as we all know, manufacturing typically has pretty high turnover, just in general. But the turnover, ironically, was because the people that were recruiting didn’t fully understand the business. So I took a look at some of the data they were doing, some of the requisitions, some of the stuff that they were putting out. And what was happening was, in the interview process, they were describing a job that actually wasn’t the job being performed by the individual that was walking through the door.
So really what we had was a mishap of expectations being set with that individual. And all of that was driven by, “Man, you have high turnover, but there’s got to be something more to just manufacturing being hard work.” I think people know that manufacturing’s hard work. And come to find out, it was, the individual just didn’t understand the full gamut of what the business was doing, thus leading to the turnover. So, simple trends, identifying and learning some of those tips, tricks and techniques that Teresa and I are going to share over the next several months, we’re absolutely going to help people understand that you don’t have to have that blank stare anymore.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah. That’s really reassuring. Well, tell us a little bit about your journey and what’s next for the both of you with big data, with your jobs. What’s on the horizon for you? Because I know this is a passion for you. You’re passionate about educating HR leaders and leaders of tomorrow. So, where is this big data journey taking you?
Chas Fields:
Teresa and I will be speaking at SHRM National this year, which will be really great. And then we’ve got a couple conferences. Follow it up with UKG Works and UKG Connections that we have that are both customer events that we’ll be speaking on this topic.
You’ll see a lot of writing coming out about this, too. And Teresa being the data scientist that she is, she absolutely puts a ton of information that’s actually already out there, so definitely go check that out. But for the listeners, if you will be at SHRM National, make sure that you mention this podcast, make sure you say, “Hey, look, we’re going to attend your session. We would love to sit down and chat with you about the challenges that y’all are having.” And continue to be on the lookout, because we are constantly trying to improve your lives, the experience that y’all are having with artificial intelligence and big data. And we want to make sure that you have the tools you need to keep your organization thriving.
Teresa Smith:
Yeah. I would just say, because big data is innovation, it’s constantly evolving and it’s constantly changing. I know for myself and Chas, we both are going to continuously learn as we see things evolve, so that we can bring it out to the field. And it’s something that I’m very passionate about, in case you couldn’t tell. But I think we all need to be passionate about it. So if we can bring a lighter side to big data and how you can apply it to your business, that’s really our ultimate goal, at the end of the day.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Really interesting. So before we wrap up the conversation, I have a really serious question. Are you ready?
Teresa Smith:
Ready.
Chas Fields:
I don’t know.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well —
Chas Fields:
Maybe.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I want to know, is it big day-tuh or da-tuh?
Teresa Smith:
I got to tell you, Laurie, I’ve been struggling with this my whole life. I think it depends on where you’re from. Some people call it da-tuh, some call it day-tuh. I’m from the South, so I’m going to call it da-tuh. Chas, what about you?
Chas Fields:
I’m day-tuh, and I live in Texas. But I’m from Indiana, so I don’t know. It’s kind of like tom-ay-toe, tom-ah-toe. It is what it is. If you don’t know, we’ll just spell it, Teresa. Maybe that’s what we’ll do, is, D-A-T-A. That’s how we’ll address it, moving forward.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I don’t want to sound like a newb, even though I am, about this kind of stuff. So I just wanted to check in with y’all and make sure it was like, not like a violation of anything to say, “day-tuh.”
Chas Fields:
Maybe we’ll do a poll, Laurie. Maybe that’s what we’ll do. We’ll do a poll and get back with you. I don’t know.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I love it. I love it. I’m voting on that poll. If it’s on Twitter, LinkedIn, just let me know, I’m there.
Well, it’s been a real pleasure to kind of talk to you about organizations, their journeys and, most importantly, why HR needs big data. So if we want to learn more, we know that we can go to UKG.com and get on the blog, get on all the good stuff. But where else could we go, Chas?
Chas Fields:
Yeah. So if you just do a quick Google search of Teresa Smith or Chas Fields, you can check out those resources. I will always refer you to SHRM, too. SHRM has some phenomenal resources out there that you can use. But quick and easy, go follow Teresa and I on LinkedIn. We can absolutely provide resources. We’re constantly publishing that. And also, I would encourage the WorkforceInstitute.org. We do a lot of research and keep up on the front-line trends of what’s going on in the workplace. So, Teresa, anything else to add?
Teresa Smith:
No, I think you nailed it right there. Thank you.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Amazing. Well, we’ll include all of that in the show notes. And thanks again, for being a guest on the podcast today.
Chas Fields:
Thanks, Laurie.
Teresa Smith:
Thank you, Laurie.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey everybody. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Chas Fields and Teresa Smith of UKG. Now remember, UKG is a sponsor of Punk Rock HR this month, so head on over to UKG.com, or visit the show notes at LaurieRuettimann.com/podcast to download a white paper, where I write about the future of work and really pull in some key thought leaders and some insights from UKG, as well. It’s a pretty great white paper, if I do say so myself. Now, that’s all for today, and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.