My guest is Zach Nunn, the founder of Living Corporate and a returning Punk Rock HR guest. Living Corporate is a multimedia platform that centers the mic on Black, brown and other marginalized voices and shares their stories of the world of work.
I’m a huge fan of the work that Living Corporate is doing and a huge fan of Zach Nunn. In this episode, we discuss how Living Corporate has grown since we last spoke, the challenges they’ve faced, the realities of starting a business and more.
One thing remains the same: Zach’s mission. So if you’re curious about any of this at all, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Zach Nunn on this week’s Punk Rock HR.
Punk Rock HR is proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is a B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Living Corporate for Black and Brown Voices
Living Corporate started off as a single podcast and has grown to a multimedia platform with numerous podcasts and web shows, job boards, career advice and more. From the beginning, Living Corporate has been bootstrapped, and it’s been Zach behind the scenes, from the website and investment to the job boards.
Zach is more than ready to bring Living Corporate to the next level and to a broader audience. “My dream is for Living Corporate to partially to be Paramount, but for Black and brown experience at work,” he explains. “I want to be a huge media conglomerate for historically marginalized people and for aspirational allies. That’s what I want it to be. And I know for that to happen, I’m going to need a different level of investment.”
The investment also has to be the right one for Living Corporate. Zach isn’t willing to compromise on the mission.
“The challenge — what I have is my understanding and my experience, and just even talking to people who have engaged with investors and VCs — is just to be really careful with who you engage because Living Corporate is for profit, but we’re mission-driven first,” Zach says. “We’re mission-driven for profit. So I’m not racing for Living Corporate to be a billion-dollar business. I’m racing for Living Corporate to reach a billion people.”
The State of DEIB Today
“The world is on fire” right now, Zach says, and another big change since he was last on the podcast is the state of diversity, equality, inclusion and belonging (DEIB), as well as accessibility. Unfortunately, DEIB has been talk and not action in the corporate world.
“By and large, corporate diversity, equity, inclusion, it’s pretty much a scam. Not only is corporate diversity, inclusion not integrated within any organization’s go-to-market success, it’s not intrinsically seen as valuable to your bottom line. So the strategy isn’t there to connect those dots because it just isn’t seen inherently as valuable,” Zach says.
Even when these companies have DEIB leaders with the skill set and knowledge to execute the initiatives, the respect for their work isn’t there. “They’re not going to be respected and seen internally by their peers as go-to-market leaders,” Zach says. “And so as I think about this landscape today, I’m not completely hopeless, but I’m a bit pessimist.”
That says, Zach continues to speak truth to power and challenge these organizations, especially when they come to Living Corporate for help. He’s pushing for the real change that more and more people also expect from their employers.
“We’re not going to be able to continue in the ways that we’ve been going in society, and certainly within the context of DEI,” Zach says. “You think about the future of work, think about these Gen Zers coming into the workplace. They don’t give a damn about the corporate language and jargon. They want certain environments and changes, and they want those things today.”
Creating Conversations That Are Frank and Expert-Driven
The world is changing, and the conversations are a little chaotic as people try to navigate these changes. But when you go to Living Corporate, it’s not about going around in circles. It’s about looking at the challenges in the face.
“You’re not checking our media that calls out the bullshit straight to people’s face like Living Corporate does and where we de-center white comfort in such extreme ways at the intersection of corporate America like Living Corporate does,” Zach states.
There is a show on the platform called “The Break Room” that discusses the mental health and wellness of Black people at work and dives into the connection between white behavior and Black trauma.
“So shoutout to Dr. [Olajide] Bamishigbin and to Dr. [Nikki] Coleman, respectively, who host and have these incredible conversations,” he says. “They’re talking really frankly while also inserting deep expertise that comes with being mental health Ph.D. folks. It’s incredible. And so we offer that. I think we offer authenticity in this space. We offer frankness, and then we also offer practical wisdom.”
Living Corporate offers an authentic perspective in the space of DEIB and how it affects typically marginalized groups. Zach shares that it’s not about giving people the “mic drop.” Instead is about looking at how each person in the workplace can navigate through these challenging but necessary conversations.
[bctt tweet=”‘We’re mission-driven for profit. So I’m not racing for Living Corporate to be a billion-dollar business. I’m racing for Living Corporate to reach a billion people.’ ~ @RevNunnWisdom, founder and creator, @LivingCorporate. Tune in to #PunkRockHR!” via=”no”]
People in This Episode
Zach Nunn: LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Living Corporate website
Full Transcript
Laurie Ruettimann:
This episode of Punk Rock HR is sponsored by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com.
Hey everybody. I’m Laurie Ruettimann. Welcome back to Punk Rock HR. My guest today is Zach Nunn. He’s the founder of Living Corporate and a return guest on Punk Rock HR. Living Corporate is a media platform. It’s a conglomerate that really tries to center Black, brown and other marginalized voices and tell stories about the world of work. I’m a huge fan of Living Corporate, but more importantly, I’m a huge fan of Zach Nunn. And I think in this conversation, you’ll hear two people chatting about the real world of starting a business, which is what Zach has done with Living Corporate, some of the challenges and also what it’s like to be an entrepreneur. So if you’re curious about any of this at all, sit back and enjoy this conversation with Zach Nunn on this week’s Punk Rock HR.
Hey Zach, welcome back to the show.
Zach Nunn:
What’s up? Thank you for having me. It’s good to be back.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah, it’s been a while. How’s life?
Zach Nunn:
You know what? Life is crazy. The world is on fire. With that being said, I want to acknowledge that, and also say for me, life is good. You know what I’m saying? Life is cool. I have a toddler now. My wife and I are expecting another daughter here in a little bit. So just excited about our growing family. Living Corporate’s doing great.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, let’s talk about all of it. Because Living Corporate, I know is how we met initially. Tell everybody if they don’t know — you are a returning guest, so they should know. But if they don’t, what is Living Corporate and why the heck are you on my podcast today?
Zach Nunn:
So first of all, I’m on your podcast because you’re the homie and you invited me back or I asked or something happened and we back together. That’s how we row.
Laurie Ruettimann:
We’re getting the band back together.
Zach Nunn:
That’s what that’s about. But then as it pertains to Living Corporate, Living Corporate it’s a digital media network that centers and amplifies Black and brown folks at work. Started off as a single podcast, it’s now grown to over six different podcasts, bunch of different web shows, writing series, research, job board, career advice. It’s a resource for historically marginalized, historically oppressed groups in the workplace and also a learning resource for aspirational allies. And so, we’ve been around since 2018. We continue to grow. We continue to evolve. And I just love it. I love the work. I love the space.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, you’ve had some pretty big announcements in the past couple of weeks about Living Corporate. So what’s going on over there?
Zach Nunn:
So a couple things, I mean, one earlier — really it was in, when was that? July — we actually announced the fact that our whole brand and website interface had changed. So like we talked about in our first time on your show — shoutout to your show, phenomenal guests by the way, please keep going.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Thank you.
Zach Nunn:
We have a library of over 2,000 pieces of media between our podcasts, our blogs, research, — and it’s all focused on diversity, equity, inclusion. We just don’t use those words, but it’s all about experience of historically marginalized folks or just talking about just the real of navigating these places as someone on the margins. And so to date, to that point, we really didn’t maximize the value of that library. When we look at our data though, as I’m sure you look at your podcast data, we noticed that there was like, too much, to be honest here.
We noticed that there were people downloading episodes from a year ago, two years ago. And I’m like, OK, what does it look like for people to get content from our library pushed to them. When they say, you know what? There’s people here who are just looking to be a better ally, who look to be a better leader. What would it look like if they created a profile, selected content and then content got pushed to them from our library on their respective homepage. And so that was a huge part of Living Corporate and the web — that functionality in terms of just really optimizing, operationalizing our content for learning and development.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I want to talk a little bit about it. Because that move from being just a space where media’s collected to really being a modern learning platform takes a big investment, and it takes a serious commitment to technology. So how did you even get there from just having a bunch of blogs and conversations to being essentially the CEO of a tech company?
Zach Nunn:
Well, first of all, thank you for that framing. It’s very gracious of you and helpful, and it’s also accurate. So I appreciate it. I think here’s the thing. After month three, when Living Corporate started in 2018, I had a vision of look, we’re going to continue to have all these conversations. I’m coming from change management, people management, so learning and development is not new to me. So I already was like, “Yo, this is going to be a lot of content. We need to think about what are things we can do now to make sure that if we ever want to change, we can do that easily.”
So early on, we were really heavy on categorization of our content and our data. So we transcribe all of our podcasts, and that was really important for us early on — one, for accessibility, because we know that there’s some people who literally will engage a podcast and never listen to the podcast. They’ll just read the transcript. So we wanted to do that. And that took like — that was thousands of dollars over the years just paying for that. Because you can do the automated transcription service, but it’s not going to be the same quality as having a human being really go in and make sure it’s word-for-word accurate.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Absolutely, absolutely. And also the way people speak and the way we read are two different things. So you want it to be accurate to what has been said, but you also want it to be legible and intelligible.
Zach Nunn:
100%. So we did that. So that was the first thing. And then, by year two and a half, at that point, I was really, really getting into TED, ted.com. And it excited me because I was like, man, they have this whole library of content and they have all these different categories, and you can create a profile and then they’ll push recommendations to you. And it’s really interactive. And I was just so excited about the idea of this learning library. TED doesn’t promote itself as a learning platform, per se, but it is, right? You go on TED, you listen to it, you listen to a podcast or you watch a video or you read an article, and you say, “Hey, do you check out TED?” And from that point I was like, this is where we need to go.
And so to your question about the technology and investment, we had a lot of conversations with a lot of different vendors, like designers, engineers, just to figure out, “OK, here’s where we ultimately want to be. Here’s where we are today. How do we continue to get to that next level?” And so we had some really great partners. I had to do a lot of work shopping to really get my view down sharp of what I wanted that user experience to be. I was also blessed to have the right partners who, when I showed them TED and I showed them Harvard Business Review and I showed them a couple of other platforms that I really respect and I like, they were able to help create that vision for me.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Last time, you were on the show, you told my audience, please stop giving us lectures. Please stop telling us to get more education. We need money. We need investment. We need your things. And when I think about you building your platform, hopefully you got some of that. Hopefully you got some of that investment. Some people said, this is worth investing in, we believe in this, and we believe in you Zach. So was that your experience?
Zach Nunn:
Yo, I love the question. The short answer is Living Corporate is completely bootstrapped and has been bootstrapped from its beginning. The website and all the investment that went into that, including its job board and all of the work there, everything that you see came from me. Now, I will say this, though. We did have a Kickstarter a little while ago that did very well. And so that helps. I think we raised $14,000. And after tax, I think I got 11 G’s or something like that. And so that was great. But as it pertains to going the VC route, we haven’t done that yet.
And I’m going to be honest with you. I’m really trying to figure out — and this is really that next stage of where I want Living Corporate to be. Because my dream is for Living Corporate to partially to be Paramount, but for Black and brown experience at work. I want to be a huge media conglomerate for historically marginalized people and for aspirational allies. That’s what I want it to be. And I know for that to happen, I’m going to need a different level of investment. I’m going to need a different level of involvement and engagement. I just haven’t found that yet. You know what I’m saying? But that’s OK.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I do. I also think there’s this thing around being an entrepreneur where you own it, and you own 100% of the success and failure. I mean, you have people, you have partners, you have wonderful contributors on the platform, but it’s yours. And to invite someone in and to trust them has got to be a tremendous leap of faith. I don’t know. Are you ready for that?
Zach Nunn:
Here’s the thing, I believe and trust in Living Corporate and what it’s going to be. I have the numbers. So I know what it is on a variety of different levels right now. The challenge, what I have is — my understanding and my experience, and just even talking to people who have engaged with investors and VCs — is just to be really careful with who you engage because Living Corporate is for-profit, but we’re mission-driven first. We’re mission-driven for profit. So I’m not racing for Living Corporate to be a billion-dollar business. I’m racing for Living Corporate to reach a billion people.
But some of these timelines and run rates that VCs will push for can be a bit aggressive. And so I think for me, it’s like, OK, I’m fully on. If someone’s like, “Hey Zach, let’s build this and blow Living Corporate up,” I’m like, yo, I’m great for that. I’m all here for that. But my anxiety comes in when it’s like, hey, let’s do that at the expense of the mission. And so finding that right person, that right group, that right balance, that’s where I believe it’s probably going to take time.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Yeah. I believe that, as well. Well, while you’re trying to figure out the mechanics of the future of Living Corporate, it’s doing great now. I mean, it’s on fire. But you’ve also made an astute statement that the world is on fire and even the landscape of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, accessibility has changed since we’ve spoken last. So what’s it like at work these days?
Zach Nunn:
I continue to be challenged. I think we talked about this last time. By and large corporate diversity, equity, inclusion, it’s pretty much a scam. Not only is corporate diversity, inclusion, not integrated within any organizations go-to market success, it’s not intrinsically seen as valuable to your bottom line. So the strategy isn’t there to connect those dots because it just isn’t seen inherently as valuable. And then when you look at the people who are oftentimes leading DEI or leading those initiatives, even if they have the skill set or they’re knowledgeable enough to really speak on things related to go-to market, they’re not going to be respected and seen internally by their peers as go-to market leaders. And so as I think about this landscape today, I’m not completely hopeless, but I’m a bit pessimist. I mean, let’s look at the market. The market right now, everything is down.
And if you just double-click on in these orgs, the first people to go are always the people organizations. It’s always the non-revenue-generating groups. It’s tough. It’s depressing. You think about, like we talked about at the top of the show, I have a daughter, I’m about have another one. I think about just the future for women, the future for Black women, specifically. So for me, where I’m at is, yo, what does it really look like to continue to speak truth to power, to challenge these organizations when they come on Living Corporate or any of our affiliate shows within our network or extended network.
And to also challenge them behind the scenes for different types of engagements and campaigns — like, don’t reach out to Living Corporate asking us to promote your white executive and white executive team for free. You’re clearly looking for something, clearly see there’s value here. Stop sending your PR agencies to Living Corporate to ask us to do free promotions and ad spots.
So there’s ways I’m pushing back, and this is a moment right now where we’re at the edge of something. We’re not going to be able to continue in the ways that we’ve been going in society, and certainly within the context of DEI. You think about the future of work, think about these Gen Zers coming into the workplace. They don’t give a damn about the corporate language and jargon. They want certain environments and changes, and they want those things today. They’ll leave and embarrass you on the way out if they don’t get them. And so, we’re at a really significant moment.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, we certainly are. I mean, we’re at an inflection point, but sometimes the status quo can go on for a while. Our timeline and what we see is short term and long term, it can go on for an extended period of time. I think a lot of these executives out there are waiting out Gen Z and waiting for them to become a little bit more mature in their life cycle — wanting to buy a home, wanting to start a family, wanting a good credit score, which is all a scam. It’s all a scam, but they’re waiting for them to want these things. They’re betting on the fact that they want, quote unquote, “social mobility,” and then they’ll have more power over them. So they’re like, okay, okay, okay. We’ll deal with the Boomers. We’ll even put up with Gen Xers, and we’re going to wait for these Gen Z kids to catch up. What do you think about that? Do you really think this movement within this younger generation is going to stick?
Zach Nunn:
I do, because I think that Gen Zers practice so — they practice generational solidarity in a different way than other generations before them. I think they’re really, really confident of what they see and how they’ve dissected and diagnosed the world around them. And I don’t see them making some about face. I wouldn’t even see a bunch of millennials doing that. But young people have the benefit of just being young, and there’s just a lot of youthful arrogance and naivete. It’s kind of like, they don’t know that they, quote unquote, “shouldn’t say this or shouldn’t do that.” And it’s awesome. I genuinely think that’s the best. And so no, I —
Laurie Ruettimann:
Wait. Do you remember feeling like that? Feeling why can’t I? Did you have some of that in your youth?
Zach Nunn:
100%. I mean, again, shoot, I’m only 33. So here’s the thing. There’s large parts of me that still feel like that even with — about to have two kids, and married with a second house and a mortgage and a 401k and all the other adult boring things that we have to do. So yeah, I 100% think that in the waiting game between Boomers and late Gen Xers and Gen Zers, that Gen Zers are going to win. I was Twitter the other day and I was like, yo — It was the CEO of JPMorgan. The CEO of JPMorgan talking about, let me track your Zoom calls and your badge. Y’all not meeting a lot on Fridays. And I looked up his age, I think he was 60. I was like, he’s about to die. You’re going to die. You know that, right?
You have a bunch of 20-something-year-olds. You think that — and so I said, I was like, y’all are going to let these old white guys destroy these companies right in front of y’all. You need to pay attention. Some guy responded to me, I’m not going to say his name, but he’s certainly older and white. And he was like, the slackers about to get let go. I said, listen — he’s like, so I’m telling all my clients — and I said, your clients need to get their money back. Because if you think that a bunch of 68- and 69- and 70-something-year-old guys are going to beat out a bunch of 23- to 28-year-old people who have the whole world. They don’t care and they’re not even addicted. I think that’s the other piece. They’re not even addicted to the same staples of society that my grandparents had.
They don’t care about having a house. They don’t care about having a bunch of cars. They don’t care. They’re like, I don’t have to do none of that. So the carrots aren’t even the same. So yeah. I mean, I think that, again, my dream, and perhaps it’s just a dream, is that the companies that continue to act a ass are going to fail, or they’re going to have to radically change. And I don’t think that the world’s going to be completely everything that the Gen Zers want, but it’s going to be more what they want than what Boomers and late Gen Xers want.
Laurie Ruettimann:
So we’ve talked about this changing world, how it’s kind of chaotic, it’s bifurcating the old versus the new. What does Living Corporate offer that you can’t get anywhere else?
Zach Nunn:
So I’m going to tell you something, you’re not checking out media that calls out the bullshit straight to people’s face like Living Corporate does, and where we de-center white comfort in such extreme ways at the intersection of corporate America like Living Corporate does. That just does not happen. I’ve listened to a lot of content. I talked to a lot of people, and we work with a lot of brands who double- and triple-confirm my statement. So even when you think about — again, there’s the Living Corporate flagship, we have another show called The Break Room. The Break Room associated by some Black psychologists and psychiatrists, and they talk about mental health and wellness for Black folks at work. And there’s no other show that I’ve seen that will literally talk about white behavior and the connection between white behavior and Black trauma at work like The Break Room does.
So shoutout to Dr. Bamishigbin and to Dr. Coleman, respectively, who host and have these incredible conversations. They’re talking really frankly, while also inserting deep expertise that comes with being mental health Ph.D. folks. It’s incredible. And so we offer that. I think we offer authenticity in this space. We offer frankness, and then we also offer practical wisdom. So, it’s not that we’re coming on and grabbing a mic and screaming, “Man, y’all white folks ain’t shit. Y’all trash. Y’all so evil.” That’s not what we’re doing. We’re having a frank conversation about the reality of historically marginalized experience. And then we’re also then pushing and saying,
“OK, in this moment, what should the executive leaders be doing? What should aspirational allies be doing? What should oppressed folks be doing? And how can they continue to navigate?”
Think about it like this. So the best career moments I’ve ever had, where when I wasn’t at my office or when I wasn’t on a Zoom. It was when someone was like, “Yo, let’s go out for drinks and let’s just catch up for like a hour.” Those conversations, I bet if you were to think about your conversations and when you’ve gotten the realest talk, it was in those moments — “Hey, let’s grab coffee, let’s grab drinks, let’s grab dinner. Let’s take the afternoon off. Let’s just go over here, and let’s just you and I have a conversation.” That’s what we’re offering. And we’re offering that several times a week, every single week throughout the entire year.
Laurie Ruettimann:
If there’s an emerging voice on Living Corporate, who you want to just highlight here who maybe has got a newer show, someone you’re really proud of on the platform, who would that be?
Zach Nunn:
Oh, a good question. Here’s the thing. I continue to be proud of all of our shows and all of our hosts. We have Neil Edwards of The Leadership Range. He’s frankly, the most credentialed executive coach that I have ever met. See, he has all these global certifications. There’s literally only four or five other people who even have all those certifications. So he’s coming back with The Leadership Range later this month. I’m really proud of him for that. I’m really proud of his content. I’m proud of the credential that he brings to these conversations. And when you think about all these executives who want coaching and need coaching, he’s providing that in a really digestible format with his podcast. So he’s great. And then, yep, we talked about The Break Room, The Group Chat with Vonda Page, phenomenal, The Access Point, and that’s led by our executive producer, Justin.
And I say all that and — not but, because “but” means you cancel all that out. What I’m really excited about, though, is the fact that we have a whole new research team that we’ve stood up. So we’re working with Blind. For those who don’t know, Blind is this anonymous posting platform for jobs. People at work, they come on there and they talk about the real, about how jacked up their job is or what they’re seen in the market or their interview, whatever. We’ve actually partnered with them. And we get thousands of survey responses on a monthly basis on various topics.
The first Blind study we did was about — and Blind study, kind of like, no pun — study with Blind to talk about employee engagement. We talked about the fact that, based on the data, we’re seeing larger levels of disengagement in the workforce we’ve ever seen before. And that the Great Disengagement is really the biggest threat that organizations really need to be preparing for. This next study that we’re going to be doing is talking about the impact of abortion access and health care rights and the impact of job transients and career development. And so that’s actually led by Mike Schmidt, who I jokingly say is our diversity hire, because he’s white. He’s phenomenal, he’s very talented, and he’s really our head of insight and research at Living Corporate. I think about Mike, but I more so think about this new function, because Living Corporate, isn’t just — we’re a resource. We’re a thought leadership space. So we want to be seen as, hey, these guys, they not only have really great conversations, dynamic information. They really are phenomenal at data analysis and insight, as well. They’re bringing together these incredible surveys and partnership with Blind, but then also creating really thought-out data-driven insights related to the world of work. And so I’m really, really excited about that.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, I love all of that. As we start to wrap up the conversation, what I see this new partnership akin to is kind of the work that you do in your day job. I mean, you started out the show by saying you’re a tech executive, and you’ve had this passion for data and primary research throughout your entire career. Since you’ve been on the show, you’ve changed jobs. What are you doing right now?
Zach Nunn:
Yeah. So when I first interviewed, I think I was a diversity and inclusion officer.
Laurie Ruettimann:
You were. Yeah.
Zach Nunn:
Yep. OK, cool, cool, cool. And not officer. Director. Forgive me.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Oh my God. I’m mad. You’re going to get fired because your title’s wrong. Yeah.
Zach Nunn:
I was director of DEI and social impact, reporting to the chief diversity officer, and it was great. It was internal. But then as I continued on, there was recognition, acknowledgement that I really to be more market-facing. And so I pivoted from being an internal DEI role to really more of a go-to-market role where I’m helping develop products and solutions that we’re then selling and delivering. And they’re all data analytics- and people analytics-driven products and solutions. And so, that’s really where my space is, when I think about my vocational, my 9-5 thing, while that continues to happen, between whenever I pivot from that to doing Living Corporate.
That be really where my sweet spot will continue to be, Laurie. It’s going to be in this connecting people and data to tell really dynamic stories. And I’m really excited about that. And to your point, I definitely want to create various species of that at Living Corporate. Because when you think about our position and all these relationships we have with all these executive brands, all these Fortune 500 brands, I want to be able to eventually go back to these folks that we’ve had on the show and say, “Hey, look at this latest research. You should partner with us for this. You should partner with us for —” We want to continue to expand our footprint so that we can continue to make an impact.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Well, Zach, one of the things I really love and appreciate about you is that you’re the example of the individual who’s using all quadrants of your brain. You’ve got an interesting job. You’ve got hobbies, you’ve got a good spiritual life, and you’re focused on your family. And I think maybe all four of those don’t always work at the same speed at the same time, but in order to live a rich and interesting life, you’ve got to have all of that. I don’t know. What do you think about that? I look to you as an example, when people are like, “Who’s really doing it right out there?” I’m like, go look at my friend, Zach.
Zach Nunn:
That is so kind. Here’s the thing. My father had ADHD as a child, and he has ADD today. I have not been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, but I have other challenges in terms of — I’m neurodivergent in some other ways. And so my point is that I’m always thinking about various things and always trying to just build things or figure things out. And so I think some of it is just, by the grace of God, I have a really great environment that nurtures those things and the environment really, I mean, like my home. My wife really encourages me to just — she gives me space to create and think and reflect, and then as well as my therapist. So I have a lot of things happening for me that, I think, help me exist in the various dimensions that I exist, which I’m really thankful for.
And I agree. I think we owe it to ourselves, I agree with your point around using various — explore parts of your brain, explore parts of yourself and see how far you can go. You’re not just this or just that. You have various things about you that are interesting. I am privileged and fortunate enough to have an environment that gives me the grace and space to explore those things. My wife, honestly — Living Corporate came out of a hobby. Now it’s a whole business. But Living Corporate was able to happen because my wife encouraged me to do something else besides my 9-to-5 job. But I appreciate that. That’s such a kind thing to say.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Oh my God. Well, I mean, and —
Zach Nunn:
That’s super-sweet.
Laurie Ruettimann:
I mean, I feel so lucky that, first of all, you came on Punk Rock HR a year ago, whenever that was, and you wanted to come back and that we stayed connected through social media, and it’s always really good to see you. So thanks again for being a guest.
Zach Nunn:
Thank you. Shoutout to Punk Rock HR. Y’all are super-fire. Please continue going. Call out these organizations where they need to be called out. And yes, white people — listen, I’m going to say this since I go — this will be my last signoff while I get out of here, Laurie. White people, I know you listening to, you’re probably like, yo, this guy is a lot. Or like, wow, he’s fairly brash. Kind of hurt my feelings. Listen, it’s not you personally. I’m speaking just to the systemic reality of historically marginalized people. You talking to this man right now, who’s a Black founder, like several other tech founders, who is under-resourced and overcoached.
What I need you to do, let’s say you feel guilty right now, you’re trying to figure out, where can I support? What can I really do? Check out living-corporate.com. Check out livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.us, livingcorporate.org. Check us out. Google “Living Corporate.” Tell your friends about us. Hit me up at zach@living-corporate.com. If you’re an executive — because I know a lot of you executives be listening to this podcast, I’m not asleep — hit us up. Trying to figure out some type of employer branding campaign, some type of learning programmatic solution for your people. Let me know. We work with brands all the time. But help me out. Right. I don’t want you to just give me your things. Let me earn them, but give me a chance, because Living Corporate’s going to continue to grow. I’m going to tell you something. I need support for that to happen. And I’m not the only one. Support a Black founder, support a Black or brown entrepreneur today. That’s it. I’m done.
Laurie Ruettimann:
No, Zach, anytime you want to come back, you’re welcome to it. And thanks again for being a guest today.
Zach Nunn:
Thank you. All right, peace.
Laurie Ruettimann:
Hey everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Punk Rock HR. We are proudly underwritten by The Starr Conspiracy. The Starr Conspiracy is the B2B marketing agency for innovative brands creating the future of workplace solutions. For more information, head on over to thestarrconspiracy.com. Punk Rock HR is produced and edited by Rep Cap with special help from Michael Thibodeaux and Devon McGrath. For more information, show notes, links and resources, head on over to punkrockhr.com. Now that’s all for today and I hope you enjoyed it. We’ll see you next time on Punk Rock HR.
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